Assembly Hall

THIS

Yes they are, but that's not the primary issue. The remark was a statement on CCPs game design. The issue is they offer a very compelling package of dps, survivability and variable extra abilities that is hard to beat. The only real downside is their cost (the skill loss doesn't count as its currently negligible). Trying to balance that out via cost is also bad game design at best, look at supercap proliferation for reference.


You clearly haven't been doing much 0.0 or WH play lately, or you would know that is not true. The only typical fleet/gang role I don't see much T3's in are logistics, ECM and cap warfare.


If you read my opening post you would've seen I support the buffing of specific T3's or aspects thereof.


I know you have difficulty understanding it, so let me restate: I don't care about PvE. This proposal refers to T3's in a PvP context. I do, however, have the opinion that introducing ships which obsolete entire ship classes (isk not being a factor) and/or are overpowered, is bad game design that actually hurts the gameplay, no matter if in pvp or pve. And Mara brought up pve. Note: I stopped doing regular missioning/ratting/pve about 2 years ago.


By that logic nothing OP would ever be nerfed. And seeing that you are only in it for yourself, what are you doing in a proposal that is trying to improve the game? You're a textbook hypocrite.

Floppie, your arguements give me wood. Masterfully played.

Most of my likes aren't from DSQ. Another 20 or so and I'll be a "natural" 500 :)

I don't play that card. Besides, so was Monk when he posted in this thread, and he's usually my CEO

You must have low standards, that wall of text contains two arguments and a lot of deflection.


I don't see much problem with complex mods except for the mostly lax fitting requirements. They are just more of the same, and the diminishing returns are okay.


Tengus are the new Drakes. Every alliance capable of fielding a fleet of them is doing so.


Stop deflecting. Just because you were responding to somebody else's argument doesn't make your stance any less self serving.

....and you completely pass over the analogy I made. If complex mods are okay in spite of their being more powerful than T2 variants, why the whine about T3s?



Your point? Should CCP nerf Tengus so Drakes go back to being the spammobile? Then will you be whining for them to nerf Drakes? Just because a given ship is the flavor of the month doesn't mean it's OP. I don't recall any changes to Drakes or Tengus for quite some time...why would there be a shift from one to the other? My guess: Metagame. Drake armies aren't as effective as they once were, because they were so widely used that other fleets developed hard counters to them. When the Tengus are consistently trumped, they'll find another ship to blob.


You deliberately took my statement out of context and tried to apply it to PVP, which was obviously not my intent. Don't accuse me of deflecting when I point that out. Here, I'll spell it out, and try to use little words:

When you are shooting the little red plus signs, use any ship you want because you are the only person fighting and balance doesn't matter. If one ship does the job better than all the others, use that ship.

Also: I can't even fly a Tengu. I dislike Caldari ships and missile boats in general (exceptions made for the Sacrilege and Vengeance)

There are no complex mods that increase a cruisers dps and tank from average to that of a BS. Nor are there mods that give BS the speed, agility and sig radius of a cruiser. T3's have both.


I'm actually liking your train of thought here, although I will disagree with your conclusion. Blobs of Tengus, in their current form and with the current other ships, will never find a hard counter. There are some tactics that offer a minimum of effectiveness against them, but engagements with similar numbers on each side tend to go heavily in favor of the Tengus.

Another cause for more and more people switching to T3's is the increase in purchasing power, which we already skirted before. Which shows another reason that balancing through cost is a bad idea.

Well, and about the Drake, many people including CCP have stated for years that it offers maybe a bit too much in a single package...


None of the quotes were taken out of context. Your mistake is to believe there is no such thing as balance in pve, therefore you are assuming I am wrongly applying your pve statements in a pvp context.
OP mission boats are one of the multiple reasons the isk faucets/sinks are out of balance. And again, introducing ships that obsolete all other hi end mission boats is just bad game design.

Finally, I don't think that the 3 nerf items I proposed are at all unreasonable.

Indeed....still cant get over the fact this is a glorifeid carebear bash aruging over "its not fiar" (mispelling intentional) argument we should nerf tech3's cause its not fiar.

And to top that off....its an OP Who hides behind an NPC for whatever reason.

That's the trifecta of irony.

Show me a T3 that gets the DPS *and* tank of a battleship. Either you fail at fitting battleships, or you've seen some outrageously-fitted T3s. In its covert configuration, my Legion deals no damage at all. My Proteus will top out doing the damage equivalent of a BC and having the tank of a moderately-tanked BS. Unless, of course, I want to drop several billion on the right mods and implants.


For now. I don't play in the blob v blob world because it's never interested me, but it's been my experience that sooner or later someone decides there was never even a box to think outside of in the first place and arrives at a really surprising solution to a particularly troublesome problem like a Tengu fleet. I'd hate to see creativity lose its place in Eve in favor of instant rebalancing every time one ship type or another rises to dominance. Mostly because being creative is probably what I'm best at.


If the problem is an excess of isk, then you should be advocating a reduction in isk generation, or an increase in isk-sinks to pull it back out of the game. If T3s are a problem now only because people can afford them now, then your real issue is with the supply and demand mechanics.


I've seen people running missions in Machs and Nightmares with nearly as good efficiency as a Tengu. Shall we nerf them to dial down the isk faucet as well? Every ship you nerf for PVE, you inadvertently nerf for PVP as well. Eve needs more isk sinks and bot countermeasures, not nerfed ships.