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Svipuls way OP - look at this video
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Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#21 - 2015-06-15 20:17:36 UTC
You think it is OP in lowsec? Try fighting one in a Wolf Rayet WH.
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2015-06-15 21:23:08 UTC
Many ships can be made to look overpowered. It's circumstantial.

I faced a small gang in my beam Coercer a week or two ago. It was comprised of several interceptors and a Svipul. I took the Svipul into armor without taking any damage myself, made him run away like little-*****, and got an interceptor kill to boot.

Does that mean the Coercer is over-powered? Nope. It just means I found a situation in which the Coercer could beam like the sun.

Having said all that, I really like the Svipul. I think it's a wonderful ship. I wish there were more ships like it.

What you really should striving for in this game, is to make a lot of the currently terrible ships better, not to make currently good ships terrible. There's a wide variety of garbage cans that need to be buffed or tweaked in some way, the Svipul isn't one of them.
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#23 - 2015-06-15 21:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Callagan
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:


wrong and wrong.

a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.



No.

The fact With 10mn ab is that you agility is crap and you're super easy to kite. A sentinel pilot just has to hit 'orbit @ 20' and that's all. Those 2 mwd caracals should have been able to keep him at range, but they were just bad.
And even if the svipul is maybe a bit powerful in a solo, it has just no utility in small gang due to its lack of damage projection.
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2015-06-15 21:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Desideratus
Lucy Callagan wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:


wrong and wrong.

a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.



No.

The fact With 10mn ab is that you agility is crap and you're super easy to kite. A sentinel pilot just has to hit 'orbit @ 20' and that's all. Those 2 mwd caracals should have been able to keep him at range, but they were just bad.
And even if the svipul is maybe a bit powerful in a solo, it has just no utility in small gang due to its lack of damage projection.

Also where did he get the idea that small artillery don't care about TDs? The Svipul can barely hit out to 50km. If it's a 280mm arty fit, he can make it a tough fight for the Sentinel, but there's no reason why a Sentinel couldn't engage him and then leave if he had to. Optimal range disruption script would be the obvious choice against Svipul.

At the same time, saying that a Svipul has no damage projection is pretty ignorant. A arty Svipul can definitely get 200 dps at 50km, or 250 dps at 27 or so km.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#25 - 2015-06-16 00:01:44 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
https://zkillboard.com/kill/46759668/


Oh, god... that fit. That isn't a good indicator of the Svipul's capability.

That said... its a strong ship. It's not OP.



Yeah but I didn't find out about it until AFTER I jumped on it.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#26 - 2015-06-16 12:30:07 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

wrong and wrong.

a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.


A tracking disrupted svipul got about 300m optimal and 1km falloff. Even in propmode he can't orbit within range with the 10mn running. Even worse, he'll be so dry you can just pick it up :>

The good point for the svipul: Even if he screws up and finds himself in a fight against something and a sentinel, he can just burn off at 4.5km/s. Svipul is good because it can dodge or escape that situation, not because he can deal with it.
Mira Chieve
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#27 - 2015-06-16 14:08:07 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:


wrong and wrong.

a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.

and from personal experience, a svipul can pretty much ignore neuts anyways. I lost several pilgrims to solo svipuls, and they werent even pimped or linked. You know what happens? they shoot down the drones, then proceed to murder the pilgrim with capless guns. And same thing with a deimos, even under web and scram they can easily tank a full blaster fit deimos because small sig.

1 v 1 svipul is king of the hill, linked or unlinked. And king of the hill not by a small margin, but by FAR.

This sound like a normal ship to you? I use svipuls as well, for this exact reason - unkillable. But its broken. Broken as hell.


You say it will kill everything with capless guns, but how is it going to tank without cap ? He cant even run his prop to speed tank. I have NEVER had a problem killing Svipuls, mostly in Moas and Thoraxes. Ab+ 2 webs work wonders.

Of course I understand it craps on everything else of its size and smaller, but why would I even engage it in a smaller ship ?

I have to say tho that my experience comes almost only from nullsec, which means no fancy pods and almost no OGBs. I can imagine it being hilariously OP in small FW plexes with full links and stuff. But hey, why fight them on their turf ?
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-06-16 15:08:47 UTC
Mira Chieve wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:


wrong and wrong.

a svipul would rip the sentinel in about 3 seconds, cause small capless guns dont give a crap about TD or neuts, and a svipul would easily have enough cap to burn into range.

and from personal experience, a svipul can pretty much ignore neuts anyways. I lost several pilgrims to solo svipuls, and they werent even pimped or linked. You know what happens? they shoot down the drones, then proceed to murder the pilgrim with capless guns. And same thing with a deimos, even under web and scram they can easily tank a full blaster fit deimos because small sig.

1 v 1 svipul is king of the hill, linked or unlinked. And king of the hill not by a small margin, but by FAR.

This sound like a normal ship to you? I use svipuls as well, for this exact reason - unkillable. But its broken. Broken as hell.


You say it will kill everything with capless guns, but how is it going to tank without cap ? He cant even run his prop to speed tank. I have NEVER had a problem killing Svipuls, mostly in Moas and Thoraxes. Ab+ 2 webs work wonders.

Of course I understand it craps on everything else of its size and smaller, but why would I even engage it in a smaller ship ?

I have to say tho that my experience comes almost only from nullsec, which means no fancy pods and almost no OGBs. I can imagine it being hilariously OP in small FW plexes with full links and stuff. But hey, why fight them on their turf ?


I understand what you are saying, but cold statics say it kills 9 times out of 10. Thats way way overpowered.
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-06-16 16:51:10 UTC
If something is to be done about the Svipul, it must affect only the 10mn AB setup, because that seems to be the only setup which can be argued is OP.
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#30 - 2015-06-16 17:53:52 UTC
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47292298/

svipuls can still die to other frigates, once again, their damage projection is ****.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#31 - 2015-06-16 18:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Thanatos Marathon
Link a garbage fit that you won't find in a small plex in FW space by a pilot that knows anything about how to fit a ship, then use it as evidence that one of the most OP ships in the game isn't OP. Oh wait, you already did.

Lucy Callagan wrote:
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47292298/

svipuls can still die to other frigates, once again, their damage projection is ****.



Maybe instead you should find a killmail of a decent Svipul fit in the environment where they are the strongest (FW space) and link that instead to prove it isn't OP?

Well ok, I'll do it for you: https://zkillboard.com/kill/47292282/

Oh wait a second, looks like they used a Svipul plus 3 other ships to kill a svipul.

JUSTK is recruiting
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-06-16 19:23:07 UTC
its not a matter of a single killmail, it is a matter of aggregate statistics.

Another day, another zkillboard snapshot - svipul once again rules the hill with 90%+ survival and success rate.

Interestingly enough, confessor and jackdaw are perfectly balanced and are in line with other ships of their class.
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#33 - 2015-06-16 19:32:33 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
its not a matter of a single killmail, it is a matter of aggregate statistics.

Another day, another zkillboard snapshot - svipul once again rules the hill with 90%+ survival and success rate.

Interestingly enough, confessor and jackdaw are perfectly balanced and are in line with other ships of their class.


That 90% thing means nothing, just check zkill:
For instance: confessor 90%
Garmur 93%
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-06-16 19:42:37 UTC
Lucy Callagan wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
its not a matter of a single killmail, it is a matter of aggregate statistics.

Another day, another zkillboard snapshot - svipul once again rules the hill with 90%+ survival and success rate.

Interestingly enough, confessor and jackdaw are perfectly balanced and are in line with other ships of their class.


That 90% thing means nothing, just check zkill:
For instance: confessor 90%
Garmur 93%


Youre right. But the fact that its the top ship in all the PvP tables, by far the top, this means something.
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#35 - 2015-06-16 20:49:16 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
Lucy Callagan wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
its not a matter of a single killmail, it is a matter of aggregate statistics.

Another day, another zkillboard snapshot - svipul once again rules the hill with 90%+ survival and success rate.

Interestingly enough, confessor and jackdaw are perfectly balanced and are in line with other ships of their class.


That 90% thing means nothing, just check zkill:
For instance: confessor 90%
Garmur 93%


Youre right. But the fact that its the top ship in all the PvP tables, by far the top, this means something.


It proves that it has high idiot-proof capabilities, not that it is an overpowered ship
Skelee VI
Appetite 4 Destruction
#36 - 2015-06-16 21:10:50 UTC
Jackdaw has no dps for solo. Svip is a bit op but can still be killed.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#37 - 2015-06-17 02:31:15 UTC
This thread is all salty. I like it.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#38 - 2015-06-17 13:54:19 UTC
Just needs a little pepper!

Garmurs and Worms are OP as well :)

JUSTK is recruiting
Moglarr
Operation Meatshield
#39 - 2015-06-17 14:11:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Moglarr
Thanatos Marathon wrote:
Link a garbage fit that you won't find in a small plex in FW space by a pilot that knows anything about how to fit a ship, then use it as evidence that one of the most OP ships in the game isn't OP. Oh wait, you already did.

Lucy Callagan wrote:
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47292298/

svipuls can still die to other frigates, once again, their damage projection is ****.



Maybe instead you should find a killmail of a decent Svipul fit in the environment where they are the strongest (FW space) and link that instead to prove it isn't OP?

Well ok, I'll do it for you: https://zkillboard.com/kill/47292282/

Oh wait a second, looks like they used a Svipul plus 3 other ships to kill a svipul.


Svipuls die.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/47303640/
Svipul fleet vs Cruiser fleet.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/47300778/
Svipul vs faction frigs.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/47275234/ & https://zkillboard.com/kill/47275047/
Svipul underestimates the Meatsheidls. Pretty sure he was part of a fleet.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/47256538/
This one was a blingy brawl. A super fun fight that I warped into.

I seem to remember something about not posting kill mails, but these are to illustrate the fact that Svipuls are powerful but not unstoppable.

There have also been many Svipuls I have driven off the field with effective ECM. No kill mails came from it, but the important thing for us was that no Svipul murdered our faces.

If a Tech 3 Destroyer goes into defensive mode to taken your incoming DPS you can begin to control the engagement range to minimize DPS. If it goes into speed mode to try and catch you or dance away from you then he loses tank, and if he is using a 10mn AB or something weird like that he wont be able to keep a point on you and you could just boogie on away. If he goes sharpshooter so you can't jam him then he loses tank AND speed, so LOL @ that idea!

That being said, I do try to avoid fighting Svipuls whenever I can, because they are a very risky ship for me to engage with the fleets I usually fly. If everything goes right we bag an awesome kill, but if things go wrong we all die in a fire. So I like to try and keep the deck stacked in my favour.

Also I really wish they could not go into small plexes.

Operation Meatshield! GETUP and fight!
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#40 - 2015-06-17 14:39:13 UTC
No doubt, svipuls, as well as every other ship in the game, can be killed.

JUSTK is recruiting