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yet another new to WH's question thread

Author
Anddo
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-06-15 17:39:08 UTC
I've been reading the forums/watching youtube videos for a while now, but still have a few questions.

I have been in the game for about a year now and have been part of a nullsec corp for a while. Most of my time I enjoy PvE more than PvP (I do PvP when needed/when I need to defend a system, but not more than that). To be honest, I have gotten bored with the normal nullsec ratting/mining/fleets, and want to try something different. I have decided I want to try to move into a wormhole and try it out, so I was hoping to get some advice on my plan so far.

To answer a few questions before they come up,

1. No, I don't want to join a WH corp. I like the idea of being solo and going at it on my own, and I'm OK losing the ISK if I fail
2. This really isn't about making ISK to start. I want to learn WH space, and have some isk set aside to lose while I learn

That being said, here are my questions,

1. What type of static should I go for? I was planning on a C2 to start, do I want a HS or LS static? Is a HS static too 'busy' for someone like me who wants to PVP as little as possible?
2. What tower to bring? I was going to bring a small tower with next to nothing in it to start, so the inevitable loss isn't bad
3. Are my starter ships OK? I was going to bring a tengu, a salvaging ship, a cheetah, a hauler, and a gas mining venture

Any general advice beyond that is greatly appreciated. Again, this is more about me learning how to actually live there, and challenging myself to do it on my own than to really make ISK, for the first few months at least. I have already written off the ISK paid for those ships and the POS...
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#2 - 2015-06-15 18:25:32 UTC
1. HS statics can be hard to find. No matter what, c2 space can get pretty busy. Probably should avoid posting and saying that you want to pvp as little as possible.
2. Avoid caldari. Mostly useless in wh space. Minmatar has a natural bonus against afk mobiles (if memory serves correctly). ECM based defense would be your best bet. Medium to start with.
3. Tengu is ok, but overkill imo. That's just me. You should have a scanning alt in case/when you get podded.

Advice: don't be an idiot and run sites with 10 wormholes around.
Anddo
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-06-15 18:30:20 UTC
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:
1. HS statics can be hard to find. No matter what, c2 space can get pretty busy. Probably should avoid posting and saying that you want to pvp as little as possible.
2. Avoid caldari. Mostly useless in wh space. Minmatar has a natural bonus against afk mobiles (if memory serves correctly). ECM based defense would be your best bet. Medium to start with.
3. Tengu is ok, but overkill imo. That's just me. You should have a scanning alt in case/when you get podded.

Advice: don't be an idiot and run sites with 10 wormholes around.



Thanks for the advice. I'm posting from a throwaway alt, because I don't want to give any info while I am planning this out. I should have mentioned that in my original post.
Suspicious Tubesteak
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-06-15 18:46:53 UTC
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:
1. HS statics can be hard to find. No matter what, c2 space can get pretty busy. Probably should avoid posting and saying that you want to pvp as little as possible.
2. Avoid caldari. Mostly useless in wh space. Minmatar has a natural bonus against afk mobiles (if memory serves correctly). ECM based defense would be your best bet. Medium to start with.
3. Tengu is ok, but overkill imo. That's just me. You should have a scanning alt in case/when you get podded.

Advice: don't be an idiot and run sites with 10 wormholes around.


All solid advice. If you live in a C2, you should have no problem running sites in a Drake. A Tengu is just overkill, and will mostly just make you a tastier target.
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#5 - 2015-06-15 19:04:56 UTC
there is no such thing as a throw away alt. just a matter of time.
Anddo
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-06-15 19:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Anddo
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:
there is no such thing as a throw away alt. just a matter of time.


I have literally never logged in with this particular toon. This account's training queue is on another character...

That being said, what I'm hearing is drake (maybe raven), not tengu, and much bigger than a small pos to start?

EDIT: I'm planning on bringing two pilots in, one that can fly a tengu/drake/whatever and a blockade runner, one that can fly industrials/gas mining, both can scan
Zand Vor
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#7 - 2015-06-15 20:11:59 UTC
For a C2 you will want a Higgs rig fitted battleship to roll your statics with.
Raven will do nicely.

Please fix wormhole combat sites: c1 20mil - c2 40 mil - c3 80 mil - c4 160 mil - c5 320 mil - c6 640 mil

Anddo
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-06-15 20:18:38 UTC
Is this the right way to go, POS-wise for a low level WH?

http://i.imgur.com/HcV0NaX.png
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-06-15 23:11:27 UTC
Out of interest, why do you want to come to wspace to PVE only?
I understand the appeal of wspace but are you coming only to make isk?
You can make more isk in HS and nowhere is more dangerous to pve in than wspace.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from coming to wspace, just curious as to your reasoning.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-06-15 23:36:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Maradusa Macarthy
Zand Vor wrote:
For a C2 you will want a Higgs rig fitted battleship to roll your statics with.
Raven will do nicely.


I'm also trying to do what the OP is. May I ask you a few questions if you don't mind?

what are Higgs rig? What and how do you know what statics are when looking for C3 WHs? What does rolling your static means and why is it important to do it? Which part of the empire is best when trying to find a C3 from a Low-sec entrance?
Zand Vor
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#11 - 2015-06-16 00:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Zand Vor
The Higgs rig increases the mass of a ship,. All regular wormholes are limited by a total mass allowed to pass throuugh, depending on the wh size. So a Higgs rig can help speed up the process of massing a wh down, more mass = less jumps needed to close the wh.

A static wh means no matter what, the system will have a minimum of 1 of those types of wh. So a c2 system can have two static whs, 1 leading to k space (low, high, null) and 1 leading to anther wormhole system. They will always have these 2 type of connections open, though the exact systems they open to are random.

Rolling your static means putting enough mass through the current static wh until it closes, forcing a new static wh of the same type to spawn.

Wormholes are location agnostic, you won't find any specific size wh connected to a specific k space location.

Please fix wormhole combat sites: c1 20mil - c2 40 mil - c3 80 mil - c4 160 mil - c5 320 mil - c6 640 mil

Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-06-16 06:27:50 UTC
Zand Vor wrote:
The Higgs rig increases the mass of a ship,. All regular wormholes are limited by a total mass allowed to pass throuugh, depending on the wh size. So a Higgs rig can help speed up the process of massing a wh down, more mass = less jumps needed to close the wh.

A static wh means no matter what, the system will have a minimum of 1 of those types of wh. So a c2 system can have two static whs, 1 leading to k space (low, high, null) and 1 leading to anther wormhole system. They will always have these 2 type of connections open, though the exact systems they open to are random.

Rolling your static means putting enough mass through the current static wh until it closes, forcing a new static wh of the same type to spawn.

Wormholes are location agnostic, you won't find any specific size wh connected to a specific k space location.


Ty Zand, I'm starting to get this gest of it which is to plug up the holes so that no one can come in to gank you. Hmm, but this is only wise if you live inside the WH, not if you're day tripping. Is it better to live inside a WH instead of day tripping? Also if you close the WH, wouldn't another WH static respawn elsewhere inside the WH? Or do you reduce the mass entries enough so that only a few ships can get in/out?


Anddo
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-06-16 13:34:25 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Out of interest, why do you want to come to wspace to PVE only?
I understand the appeal of wspace but are you coming only to make isk?
You can make more isk in HS and nowhere is more dangerous to pve in than wspace.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from coming to wspace, just curious as to your reasoning.


I should clarify, I don't mind PvP at all, but only to defend my space. I don't typically undock to roam and look for fights. I completely understand I will need to defend whatever system I end up living in.

My reason for doing this is honestly boredom. I actively play the market as well as do ratting in a very safe nullsec system with two characters, so ISK isn't a concern for me, I am mainly looking to just try something new, and WHs are something I have really never spent time on in EVE. This is mainly a project where I want to see how long I can survive holding one WH on my own. If I find I like living there, I might quit my alliance and start a corp out there, if I don't like it I will move out/be forced out/abandon the assets.
HoruSeth
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-06-16 14:06:42 UTC  |  Edited by: HoruSeth
Maradusa Macarthy wrote:
Is it better to live inside a WH instead of day tripping?


Depends on your number of persons and activity. I recommend living in a wormhole. Easiest way is to choose a wormhole with a HiSec static, because that means when nothing to do in w-space you can always move out to HiSec to do the stuff you are doing these days anyway.

@Jack: You can make more isk in HS? Wondering how to be honest, but maybe that depends on point of view. If you just stay in wormhole waiting for anomalies to spawn maybe. Otherwise plenty of isk lie even in lower classes and from what I know scale up of course the higher you can go with your ressources (peoples + assets).

@Anddo: If you can fly Tengy, don't do it in Drakes. Maybe at the first time, but soon the increased killspeed in Tengu will make up for the cost and Drake is a slow moving stone, while Tengu is not, properly flown and keeping an eye on DS and Probescanner are more important. A cheap T2 Tengu is doing a very good job in C2s!
PS: What wants to kill you in a Tengu, will kill you in Drakes as well. Nobody just passes by in wormholes and say to himself: "Oh, look. Just a Drake. No I don't care. If it would be a Tengu I would bother to kill it, but a Drake is below my dignity" ^^

On my gravestone will be written: "Died because he used sarcasm in the wrong moment"

Zand Vor
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#15 - 2015-06-16 14:45:24 UTC
Maradusa Macarthy wrote:
Zand Vor wrote:
The Higgs rig increases the mass of a ship,. All regular wormholes are limited by a total mass allowed to pass throuugh, depending on the wh size. So a Higgs rig can help speed up the process of massing a wh down, more mass = less jumps needed to close the wh.

A static wh means no matter what, the system will have a minimum of 1 of those types of wh. So a c2 system can have two static whs, 1 leading to k space (low, high, null) and 1 leading to anther wormhole system. They will always have these 2 type of connections open, though the exact systems they open to are random.

Rolling your static means putting enough mass through the current static wh until it closes, forcing a new static wh of the same type to spawn.

Wormholes are location agnostic, you won't find any specific size wh connected to a specific k space location.


Ty Zand, I'm starting to get this gest of it which is to plug up the holes so that no one can come in to gank you. Hmm, but this is only wise if you live inside the WH, not if you're day tripping. Is it better to live inside a WH instead of day tripping? Also if you close the WH, wouldn't another WH static respawn elsewhere inside the WH? Or do you reduce the mass entries enough so that only a few ships can get in/out?




So if you live in a WH, you generally roll your statics to get wormholes closer to areas you want to go (i.e. Market Hubs).
You also mass them down exactly as you said, when a WH is crit it's very unlikely anyone can get through in large enough fleets to take on your plexing ship. It's not perfect, but it is a deterrent.

For day tripping, you are playing against the odds of someone finding you before you finish doing whatever you are doing (Gassing, Combat Anoms, Exploration). For safer daytripping, first things to do are to: Check how busy the system is, if it's got a ton of active towers...move on. Scan all Sigs and know what other WHs are there. Use scouts on all WHs if you can. Make a safe spot in deep space, stay aligned as much as possible to your safe.

The "safety" of living and owning a POS in a WH is countered by the fact your POS can be vulnerable to attack, risking your assets. Living in WH space, there just is no guarantee someone won't come around and go "oh hai, that POS just needs to come down". But for the most part, people won't bother IF the POS is equipped/defended properly.

One thing to know in the lower-class WHs both you and the OP are looking at, you don't usually run just your own anoms, you want to own a hole with a good static WH connected to it, and that's where your real money is. You run out the sites in your static, then roll it, scan down the new hole, and if it's safe enough, run out the sites again. As an example, my corp's wh is a C2 with static High and Static C4. We run the C4 and other connected sites when we feel it's safe.

Please fix wormhole combat sites: c1 20mil - c2 40 mil - c3 80 mil - c4 160 mil - c5 320 mil - c6 640 mil

Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#16 - 2015-06-16 15:00:57 UTC
the POS setup looks good enough. depending on the hole, i might have more gallente and minmatar online, but that's just me.
Anddo
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-06-16 17:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Anddo
HoruSeth wrote:

@Anddo: If you can fly Tengy, don't do it in Drakes. Maybe at the first time, but soon the increased killspeed in Tengu will make up for the cost and Drake is a slow moving stone, while Tengu is not, properly flown and keeping an eye on DS and Probescanner are more important. A cheap T2 Tengu is doing a very good job in C2s!
PS: What wants to kill you in a Tengu, will kill you in Drakes as well. Nobody just passes by in wormholes and say to himself: "Oh, look. Just a Drake. No I don't care. If it would be a Tengu I would bother to kill it, but a Drake is below my dignity" ^^


I will probably end up with my Tengu long term, but after reading these responses/researching for a while I think my plan to start is this: for my first shot, bring a small throwaway pos, scanning ship, PvP frig, and nothing else. Set up shop and just get used to wormhole space for a week or two, ignoring being able to make ISK. I'm assuming I will lose a few small pos's as part of the learning process, but I might do that a few times until I feel more comfortable knowing and understanding WHs. After I do that I will set up a large POS, bring PvE/PvP Tengus, noctis's, a prospect/etc...

It's becoming apparent to me I need to just jump in with some low ISK setups and actually test out the day to day of living in one before I commit myself.


one more question. Is it better to log out in a POS, or log out in a deep safe, in case your POS gets attacked/camped when you are logged out?
Digits Kho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-06-16 18:23:36 UTC
I dun know how it is now but when i was in a C2 the PI was quite good also
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#19 - 2015-06-16 19:37:08 UTC
you can log most your guys at tower, but it would be a pretty good idea to have an emergency scanner logged off at a deep safe or something of the sort.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-06-16 23:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
HoruSeth wrote:
Maradusa Macarthy wrote:
Is it better to live inside a WH instead of day tripping?


Depends on your number of persons and activity. I recommend living in a wormhole. Easiest way is to choose a wormhole with a HiSec static, because that means when nothing to do in w-space you can always move out to HiSec to do the stuff you are doing these days anyway.

@Jack: You can make more isk in HS? Wondering how to be honest, but maybe that depends on point of view. If you just stay in wormhole waiting for anomalies to spawn maybe. Otherwise plenty of isk lie even in lower classes and from what I know scale up of course the higher you can go with your ressources (peoples + assets).

@Anddo: If you can fly Tengy, don't do it in Drakes. Maybe at the first time, but soon the increased killspeed in Tengu will make up for the cost and Drake is a slow moving stone, while Tengu is not, properly flown and keeping an eye on DS and Probescanner are more important. A cheap T2 Tengu is doing a very good job in C2s!
PS: What wants to kill you in a Tengu, will kill you in Drakes as well. Nobody just passes by in wormholes and say to himself: "Oh, look. Just a Drake. No I don't care. If it would be a Tengu I would bother to kill it, but a Drake is below my dignity" ^^


Doesn't make sense to me to risk doing C2's in a 400+ mill isk Tengu when a 40 mill isk Confessor/Svipul does it almost as efficiently and with insurance payout when someone ganks you, you'd only lose about 20 mill isk tops (not to mention you don't lose SP).
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