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Next step out of the Sandbox from ex Erotica1 minions.

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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#121 - 2015-06-15 17:23:52 UTC
Posting in a 'use the word Erotica1 to trigger click bait' thread.

Would you like to know more?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#122 - 2015-06-15 18:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Martin Corwin wrote:
Recording these private conversations and releasing them on a public accessible place like Soundcloud crosses the line for me 100%. I hope these douchebags get banned ASAP.

Thats not against the EULA though though. ...

Brb im posting what you just said on reddit for all to read and mock


Well, that might be fine, but there might be an actual legal issue here.

Disclaimer: IANAL

However, I do take alot of pictures usually street pictures (street art and stuff going on as I go about my day). I'll also take video. So I have familiarized myself with my rights and the laws around things like photography and taking videos in public.

The basic rule is: in public the other person has no valid expectation of privacy and therefore pictures and videos are totally legit.

If, however, there is even a partial expectation of privacy then you are on shaky ground (for example, a public restroom affords at least some degree of privacy so taking pictures in there will almost surely get you into trouble).

As for voice recordings, that is often illegal if you do not do it with the consent of the other party and they have an expectation of privacy--e.g. they are on the phone in their house or somewhere they cannot be over-heard. This is why when you call your bank, insurance company, or just about any business they'll have that disclaimer that the conversation might be recorded for quality assurance purposes. If you call your insurance company about say a car accident and you have to give an official statement they will be very much more clear that you are being recorded and will only do so once you have explicitly given your permission.

Now, I have not listened to the sound clouds, but if there were no such disclaimers then technically there could be a legal issue here around wire tapping. Maybe. It all depends on the expectations of privacy the victim of the scam had (legally speaking, not his own personal feelings).

What does this have to do with picture taking/videos in public? Videos also record sound and there have been people (wrongfully) arrested for wire tapping when taking videos (usually of police officers). Which is why I have some familiarity with wire tapping laws.

But again, IANAL. Although if I were CCP I'd run this past the legal department if it has not been done so yet. Especially with the link on their forums and that if the guy did decide to pursue this legally then he'd likely have to go through CCP.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2015-06-15 18:28:41 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Martin Corwin wrote:
Recording these private conversations and releasing them on a public accessible place like Soundcloud crosses the line for me 100%. I hope these douchebags get banned ASAP.

Thats not against the EULA though though. ...

Brb im posting what you just said on reddit for all to read and mock


Well, that might be fine, but there might be an actual legal issue here.

Disclaimer: IANAL

However, I do take alot of pictures usually street pictures (street art and stuff going on as I go about my day). I'll also take video. So I have familiarized myself with my rights and the laws around things like photography and taking videos in public.

The basic rule is: in public the other person has no valid expectation of privacy and therefore pictures and videos are totally legit.

If, however, there is even a partial expectation of privacy then you are on shaky ground (for example, a public restroom affords at least some degree of privacy so taking pictures in there will almost surely get you into trouble).

As for voice recordings, that is often illegal if you do not do it without the consent of the other party and they have an expectation of privacy--e.g. they are on the phone in their house or somewhere they cannot be over-heard. This is why when you call your bank, insurance company, or just about any business they'll have that disclaimer that the conversation might be recorded for quality assurance purposes. If you call your insurance company about say a car accident and you have to give an official statement they will be very much more clear that you are being recorded and will only do so once you have explicitly given your permission.

Now, I have not listened to the sound clouds, but if there were no such disclaimers then technically there could be a legal issue here around wire tapping. Maybe. It all depends on the expectations of privacy the victim of the scam had (legally speaking, not his own personal feelings).

What does this have to do with picture taking/videos in public? Videos also record sound and there have been people (wrongfully) arrested for wire tapping when taking videos (usually of police officers). Which is why I have some familiarity with wire tapping laws.

But again, IANAL. Although if I were CCP I'd run this past the legal department if it has not been done so yet. Especially with the link on their forums and that if the guy did decide to pursue this legally then he'd likely have to go through CCP.

If you join a voice conversation over the internet through software with several other people. You have zero expectation of privacy.

The software is also saving the VoIP voice into data of 1s and 0s.

So by your account, sue Teamspeak?

I am also sure that teamspeaks lengthy EULA and ToS says what you say over their program aint private.


You seriously are enterimg a chatroom with other people.

That aint private.

Want privacy? Mail em a letter
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#124 - 2015-06-15 18:42:32 UTC
If CCP servers were in Finland, that scammer would be hitted heavy by justice system, scammer would be accused of fraud.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#125 - 2015-06-15 18:52:48 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
If CCP servers were in Finland, that scammer would be hitted heavy by justice system, scammer would be accused of fraud.
These types of posts, are the reason I read these types of threads. It's the icing on top of the comedy gold cake. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#126 - 2015-06-15 19:20:49 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
If CCP servers were in Finland, that scammer would be hitted heavy by justice system, scammer would be accused of fraud.
Why? Is everyone there unable to separate reality from a computer game?

Evil RatKid
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#127 - 2015-06-15 19:35:16 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
If CCP servers were in Finland, that scammer would be hitted heavy by justice system, scammer would be accused of fraud.
Why? Is everyone there unable to separate reality from a computer game?


I bet they would find some part from law where they could calculate how much that isk is in RL money, as in price of PLEX/subscription.

It has happened here before if i remember correctly, case of "Happo Hotelli" (Acid Hotel, Sim-Life style mmo), Finnish mmo game where some kid stole from other kid some assets in game. Big news way back then...
Schmantoo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#128 - 2015-06-15 19:58:24 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
I
Also he kind of deserved it for listening to Rap music.


I like you.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#129 - 2015-06-15 20:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:

If you join a voice conversation over the internet through software with several other people. You have zero expectation of privacy.


I don't think this is necessarily true. For example, people can have confidential conference calls for say business purposes. In the U.S. many states have one party consent, but not all of them do and if one person is in an all party consent state it gets dicey. How it is in other countries probably varies. For example Finland appears to be one party consent, whereas Germany is an all part consent. In the U.K. it appears to be more....complicated. There, it is largely one party, but if you release it like was done here...there might be a problem.

Quote:
The software is also saving the VoIP voice into data of 1s and 0s.

So by your account, sue Teamspeak?


No, no more than you'd sue the person who makes recording equipment for recording phone calls. You'd sue the person who takes the illegal action.

Quote:
I am also sure that teamspeaks lengthy EULA and ToS says what you say over their program aint private.


It is possible, but then that opens up a whole messy can of worms.

Quote:
You seriously are enterimg a chatroom with other people.


A private meeting between two or more people is still private. In fact, if two people are in public, but are taking pains so that their conversation is not overheard, then if you use an electronic device to record them without their knowledge and thus their consent you'd probably be in some trouble (if caught). How is TS any different?

Basically, technology has moved ahead of the law here so it is a grey area. Maybe TS or whatever has a ToS/EULA that does say you have no right to privacy, but how is that all that much different than most other forms of electronic communication? Because it is over the internet? What about cell phones?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#130 - 2015-06-15 20:20:43 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
bla


Once again the argument dance starts.
Talking on the street / teamspeak can be listened to, but recording and publishing it is something different.

Even if the talks werent privat, the guy could fairly assume a discussion between friends.
Thats ONE point. Others listening.
On the street and in teamspeak you see listeners.

But not only that, the talks have been recorded without his consent and published, thats TWO.

Constructing excuses about the cruel world and EULAs is pathetic. As long as it is not something like Watergate, private talks are private, even if they would talk on New York Times square.



EDIT:
Whats the point?
EvE is dying because the most pathetic stunts might get you a ban?
Just don't do pathetic stunts.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#131 - 2015-06-15 20:34:31 UTC
How ironic:
How some kind of criminals who violate some rules, desperatly try to pull out more rules to protect themselfes from retaliation and "unfair" treatment.
Pirate

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#132 - 2015-06-15 20:41:07 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
If CCP servers were in Finland, that scammer would be hitted heavy by justice system, scammer would be accused of fraud.
Why? Is everyone there unable to separate reality from a computer game?


I bet they would find some part from law where they could calculate how much that isk is in RL money, as in price of PLEX/subscription.

It has happened here before if i remember correctly, case of "Happo Hotelli" (Acid Hotel, Sim-Life style mmo), Finnish mmo game where some kid stole from other kid some assets in game. Big news way back then...

I once held Finland in high regards, but now that I know that they can't differentiate between internet space pixel money and real money I have to think about that again.

Evil RatKid
Mag's
Azn Empire
#133 - 2015-06-15 21:03:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
If CCP servers were in Finland, that scammer would be hitted heavy by justice system, scammer would be accused of fraud.
Why? Is everyone there unable to separate reality from a computer game?


I bet they would find some part from law where they could calculate how much that isk is in RL money, as in price of PLEX/subscription.

It has happened here before if i remember correctly, case of "Happo Hotelli" (Acid Hotel, Sim-Life style mmo), Finnish mmo game where some kid stole from other kid some assets in game. Big news way back then...
Now I can laugh at you. It was such big news, you remember it completely wrong. Roll

That case was about false websites gaining login and account details, therefore it fell under the fraud laws. Just as it would everywhere else.
Quote:
The Finnish company Sulake, which owns Habbo Hotel subsequently identified several hundred more users who appeared to have been targeted, according to DS Levonen.

The online thieves allegedly targeted users with fake web pages to capture usernames and passwords, in what is commonly known as an online "phishing" scam.


If you in fact mean the Dutch teenager that was arrested in 2007, that also was about false websites.
Quote:
A spokesman for Sulake, the company that operates Habbo Hotel, said: "The accused lured victims into handing over their Habbo passwords by creating fake Habbo websites.

Maybe a little reading and comprehension, before posting next time. Blink

Please note in both cases, the Finnish company contacted the police, because what happened was fraud and illegal. Unlike this event.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#134 - 2015-06-15 21:11:26 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Yeah as I said it happened long ago, I did not pay much attention on it and said "if I remember correct", too.

Funny how some people were already judging Finland over that, guess they just can´t find any faults in our socialist paradise Big smile
Mag's
Azn Empire
#135 - 2015-06-15 21:15:16 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Yeah as I said it happened long ago, I did not pay much attention on it and said "if I remember correct", too.

Funny how some people were already judging Finland over that, guess they just can´t find any faults in our socialist paradise Big smile
Well you got it completely wrong and then missed the sarcasm from other posters.

Reading and comprehension, isn't your strong suit I guess.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#136 - 2015-06-15 21:16:30 UTC
Mag's wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yeah as I said it happened long ago, I did not pay much attention on it and said "if I remember correct", too.

Funny how some people were already judging Finland over that, guess they just can´t find any faults in our socialist paradise Big smile
Well you got it completely wrong and then missed the sarcasm from other posters.

Reading and comprehension, isn't your strong suit I guess.


And I guess understanding TZ´s is not one of yours.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#137 - 2015-06-15 21:19:06 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Yeah as I said it happened long ago, I did not pay much attention on it and said "if I remember correct", too.

Funny how some people were already judging Finland over that, guess they just can´t find any faults in our socialist paradise Big smile

Hey, it was you who sold them as idiots. So do you agree that your initial statement was nonsense, Finnish people are not idiots and that no one will get legal problems for stealing internet space pixel money, even in Finland?

Evil RatKid
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#138 - 2015-06-15 21:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yeah as I said it happened long ago, I did not pay much attention on it and said "if I remember correct", too.

Funny how some people were already judging Finland over that, guess they just can´t find any faults in our socialist paradise Big smile

Hey, it was you who sold them as idiots. So do you agree that your initial statement was nonsense, Finnish people are not idiots and that no one will get legal problems for stealing internet space pixel money, even in Finland?


I would start thinking about your own free education, healthcare, payment from each baby every month 17 years (+generous welfare benefits, about 1000 euro month, depending on rent), before i would start to criticize our laws.

I assume with 99% certainty that you are not from rest of Scandinavia, Swiss, or even from Canada...
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#139 - 2015-06-15 21:38:21 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
Yeah as I said it happened long ago, I did not pay much attention on it and said "if I remember correct", too.

Funny how some people were already judging Finland over that, guess they just can´t find any faults in our socialist paradise Big smile

Hey, it was you who sold them as idiots. So do you agree that your initial statement was nonsense, Finnish people are not idiots and that no one will get legal problems for stealing internet space pixel money, even in Finland?


I would start thinking about your own free education, healthcare, payment from each baby every month 17 years (+generous welfare benefits, about 1000 euro month, depending on rent), before i would start to criticize our laws.

I assume with 99% certainty that you are not from rest of Scandinavia, Swiss, or even from Canada...

My friend, your assumptions are as bad as your space lawyering. I am from one of this countries, I will not tell you from which one, but I give you a hint: We have everything you have in a better version + a real democracy. Take your guess.

Evil RatKid
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#140 - 2015-06-15 21:40:06 UTC
I thought Erotica1 bonus room went too far, but this seems nothing like it. A long con that didn't even upset the mark that much ("I can earn it back with 400M/hour incursions, etc.").

I feel more pity for the CEO who had his corp stolen in the beginning, and the other players who were recruited to join the corp to enable the ruse.