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EVE calc

Author
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-06-13 23:06:10 UTC  |  Edited by: solrac lara
So there was that article abaut a planet arzad II which was bombed by the amarr to the point that the oceans boiled and it was no longer capable of sustaining life so i wanted to try to make a calc from said event based in some assumptions im not that good at physics so any help or correction would be great :).
First lets assume that the quantity of water in arzard is the same than in earth, if thats right then the energy needed to boil all that water would be 3.7x10*27 joules (http://scientificlogic.blogspot.com/2010/04/how-much-heat-is-needed-to-vaporize.html)
alright we dont know the exact number of ships involved in the bombardment but usually we see fleets numbered in the hundreds in most engagements and stuff so lets go with 1000 ships. Also we know that the bombardment was 450 years ago.
alright so 1000 ships and 3x10*27 joules of energy and 450 years ago lets go with high and low ends to make the calcs

low end

lets assume that the bombardment lasted for 450 years how much energy would be neccesary for each tachyon beam to boil all the oceans

T = 450 years

energy = 3.7x10*27 J

so

3.7x10*27 j / 450 years = 8.222x10*24 J/ year

lets go further and calcs how many joules per second should be transmited.

year = 365 days
day = 24 hours
hour = 3600 seconds.

365 x 24 x 3600 = 31536000secs
thats the ammount of secs in a year
so
31536000 = T
and we have the ammount of energy / year neccesary to boil all the water in the planet
then
8.222x10*24 J/ year / 31536000secs
should give us the ammount of energy / sec needed to do the trick

8.222x10*24 J/ year / 31536000secs =2.6072496e+17J /sec

So 2.6072496e+17J /sec

now we divide it by the number of ships and turrets. lets assume that the amarr used apocalypse battleships because in the few showings of orbital bombardments usually thats the kind of ship they use.
apocalupse class battleships usually have 8 turret hardpoints, and tachyon beams have a rate of fire of 1 shot every 13 secs without any upgrade so lets divide even more.

1000 = ammount of ships

8 = number ot turrets

13 = rate of fire

1000 x 8 x 13 = 104000

2.6072496e+17J / 104000

= 2.5069708e+13 joules/ second

EACH SHIP

which is something like six kilotons per second. so a 6kt nuke exploding each second no stop for 450 years but this is highly unlikely and is just a low end because today we dont see amarr ships shooting at arkad II today so it probably took alot less like days or weeks but we dont have the ammount of time. But still with those numbers we get energy ammounts and firepower alot bigger that the one showed in game for example T1 tachyon beams have a capacitor consumption of 76 GJ or 76000000000J and its possible to calc how much it would take to current battleships to archieve the same ressults and the powergap betwhen them.

calced firepower = 2.5069708e+13 neccesary for each turret.


energy consumption from tahcyon I beam = 76000000000J

Powergap betwhen ingame ships and lara calc ships = 2.5069708e+13j/76000000000J = 329.864578947

So amarr Tachyon beams should be 330 times more powerful than in game ones to be able to do the same feat

and it would take something like 148439 years to ingame ships to archieve the same feat.

Ofcourse Arkad II oceans could ve been smaller than earth oceans. So the results might be different.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#2 - 2015-06-14 22:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
While your endeavours seem interesting, this is hard to quantify without proper numbers, which we don't have. But for one I would think your estimate of 1000 ships is off - the Battle of Vak'Atioth had 200 Amarrian ships present, which was considered a small force. To fully decimate a planet there is most certainly at least a thousand ships present, possibly several thousand, and not all of them battleships. To my knowledge, all ships in EVE are capable of planetary assault, for gameplay reasons this is currently reserved only for destroyers. So imagine that there would have been Prophecies (harbies didn't exist back then), Mallers, Omens and possibly even a few Revelations bombarding the planet.

That being said, the main ships most likely used were Armageddons, which was and is the main workhorse of the Amarr Navy - Apocalypses were the pride of the Navy; flagships, command ships and fewer in number than the 'geddons, if I know my Amarr military lore right.

Again while I appreciate your efforts to make scientific sense of the planetary destruction, I would say that it is a fools errand as long as we don't know all of the details (the size of the planet, seas, fleet composition of the Amarr forces, etc.).
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-06-14 23:29:00 UTC  |  Edited by: solrac lara
Teinyhr wrote:
While your endeavours seem interesting, this is hard to quantify without proper numbers, which we don't have. But for one I would think your estimate of 1000 ships is off - the Battle of Vak'Atioth had 200 Amarrian ships present, which was considered a small force. To fully decimate a planet there is most certainly at least a thousand ships present, possibly several thousand, and not all of them battleships. To my knowledge, all ships in EVE are capable of planetary assault, for gameplay reasons this is currently reserved only for destroyers. So imagine that there would have been Prophecies (harbies didn't exist back then), Mallers, Omens and possibly even a few Revelations bombarding the planet.

That being said, the main ships most likely used were Armageddons, which was and is the main workhorse of the Amarr Navy - Apocalypses were the pride of the Navy; flagships, command ships and fewer in number than the 'geddons, if I know my Amarr military lore right.

Again while I appreciate your efforts to make scientific sense of the planetary destruction, I would say that it is a fools errand as long as we don't know all of the details (the size of the planet, seas, fleet composition of the Amarr forces, etc.).


I some of have those data and i even calc the ammount of water on the planet assuming it possesed the sa 71/29 proportion of water that earth posses. the fleet composition could be a trouble we know that arzad wasnt the first case of orbital bombardment ( well chronologically it is but is not the only) eanna a planet in the HROR system suffered a similar fate and the fleet responsible of such was numbered in the hundreds, so i use 1000 as a high estimate. Also i highly doubt that cruisers were involved in both bombardments the weapon of choice in both incidents where tachyon beams and you cant mount those on anything smaller than a battleship (i wish we could but still) anyway here are the calcs assuming that arkad had the same sea/earth proportion than earth.

Arzad II is a planet on eve online and there are some data of it like radius and stuff using those data and some assumptions i tried to calc the volume of water on said planet. we also must assume that the assume that the profundity of the oceans in arkad is similar than earth that should give us a profundity of 2.7 kms
basically volume of oceans = volume of arkad - central volume x0*71
the central volume is the volume of earth under the oceans
Radius of arzad = 2220 km (rather small for an earth sized planet )

so V arkad = 4/3 pi x R*3
V arkad = 4/3 pi x 2220*3
V arkad = 4/3 pi x 10941048000km
V arkad = 45829754692.5 cubic kilometers.
Then we calc the central volume
V central = 4/3 pi x (2220-2.7) * 3
V central = 45662741309.2 cubic kilometers
then
VOceans = V arkad - V central x 0.71
we get the following

(45829754692.5 - 45662741309.2) x 0.71 =118579502.143 cubic kilometers of water.
lets convert it to cm3
we got 1.185795e+22 cubic centimeters of water in arkad prime alot less than in earth but still a high number

now we calc the energy neccesary to vaporize all that water

we know that the energy neccesary to vaporize 1cm *3 of water is 2300 J

so energy neccesary to vaporize all the water in Arkad II = 2300 x 1.185795e+22

2300 x 1.185795e+22 = 2.7273285e+25 J of energy

I got really intrested in this topic because i like science and made simple calcs in this kind of stuff for sh*y and giggles and CCP is a bit coy with technical aspect of new eden like weapon yields and ship speed so i lurk a bit and i found the new eden timeline there is mentioned the year where Arkad II was glassed so i assume that the bombing took at year at best. so we can proceede to do the calcs with a year ( low end) and a day (high end)

low end

2.7273285e+25j = energy

T = 1 year or 31536000 secs

energy required every second to vaporize the seas of arkad = 2.7273285e+25 / 31536000

which gave us the following number 8.6483021e+17 J / second

then we divide it betwhen the number of ships (1000 used here i use 1000 because the few encounters including the amarr navy pew pewing people we see figures in the hundreds of ships, take eanna and the jove amarr war as a example ) and the number of turrets that can be fitted in a armagedon which is 5 if im not mistaken.

8.6483021e+17 / 5000 = 1.7296604e+14 joules / second for each turret.

roughly 42 kilotons / sec for each turret highly above than the valors showed in game.

high end

basically the same calc the one done before but counting the ammount of secs in a day instead of a year which is is basically

86400 seconds

So the energy per second needed to vaporize the seas of arkad II = 2.7273285e+25 / 86400

= 3.1566302e+20J per second now we proceed to divide it by the number of ships and turrets like we did before.

3.1566302e+20 / 5000

= 6.3132604e+16 joules per second for each turret or 15.0890545331 megatons for each turret.

So eve firepower should be betwhen double digit kilotons to double digit megatons. or at least is probably the closest approximation i can imagine without using game mechanics. we could also use the reschard v incident but we get really high numbers the energy neccesary to melt the entyre polar cap is araund 2 petatons. if my numbers arent wrong.