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What are the Advantages of Industry-Focused Corporations?
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Nate Guralman
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2015-06-12 17:04:36 UTC
I was reading a post on Casual Highsec Solo Industry recently, and someone mentioned how much solo play sucks in EVE, even when doing industry. I know a lot of people say this, not just about industry, but in other aspects of the game. I believe they're right; even though I primarily play the game solo (and enjoy it), my best experiences in the game have been in groups.

Given this, I've been wondering how joining an industrial corporation would enhance my gameplay. Specifically,

What can I do in an industrial corporation that I can't solo?

I know certain things are almost (if not completely) impossible without a corporation, like capital ship construction. The other advantage I see is security in numbers: by being part of a corporation or alliance, industrialists get access to things a solo high sec industrialist can't, like null ore, moon mining, better planets for PI, etc.

Are there other advantages to being in an industrial corporation?

What's the impact on bottom line?

While I enjoy the activities around research and production, the main point of industry is profit.

In a solo corporation, I get to control all the ISK, which means I keep 100% of the profits. How does this work in an industrial corporation? Are members paid for a certain task? Are the profits split equally among all the members?

I'm assuming as well that corporations are able to generate more ISK through more lucrative operations, like capital ship construction, which means that members can make more ISK that with a solo operation. Is that accurate?

What's the easiest / most educational way to get into null sec industry?

This is a bit of a tangent to the solo / group industry question, but what's the best way to get into null sec industry? Joining an established industrial corporation? Renting a system and creating your own industry?

I look forward to reading your wisdom.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#2 - 2015-06-12 23:20:51 UTC
The advantages I see are:
- Social, a group of like minded people to talk to.
- Advice, from people who have been doing industry a lot longer then you.
- Mentoring, helping new players get started.
- Access to shared resources - POS, POCO, base of operations in wormhole or null-sec, freighters & jump freighters

Most corporations have a tax but it generally only affects mission runners - charged on bounties and mission rewards. Not charged on market transactions.

You can have the best of both worlds with your main in a player corp and a solo ALT corp for your industry.
Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
#3 - 2015-06-14 09:01:53 UTC
Sadly, Eve industry doesn't really seem to lend itself to group play. Most "industry" oriented corps are about asteroid mining. Group mining ops can benefit form dedicated haulers and buffs; run properly, people can mine more in a group than they could alone. Actual manufacturing doesn't seem to benefit from group dynamics. Granted there are some benefits to doing research and manufacture in a corp POS, but current POS mechanics open anyone using a shared POS to a severe risk of having their stuff stolen. It doesn't take much experience with corp theft before experienced manufacturing players prefer operating a private POS no one else has access to. Planet Interaction has considerable potential as a shared activity, but current mechanics make cooperation difficult. PI goods MUST be picked up from the customs office by the character that owns the colony, which is a serious limitation. There just isn't a lot of reason to form an industry oriented corp unless you are focusing on mining.
Bear Templar
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#4 - 2015-06-14 13:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bear Templar
Eric Raeder's comments also echo my thoughts.

I was thinking of how an "industry" corp could work, and one way I thought of, which may be done already or even dismissed as a bad idea, is as follows:

> Corp has X amount of shares to sell - could be all, could be a maximum % of the total amount to allow CEO to retain majority.
> Members can buy shares of the corp at whatever price.
> The idea then is for the corp to use the invested ISK to make profit and to then return the ISK back to the members.
> This way, people are motivated to work together to make greater amount of ISK as it benefits them all to do so.

Going back to Eric's comments; he's right, the way manufacturing is set up, people can simply do it themselves with less risk. But, there is only so much a person can build at any one time. If people worked together, sort of dividing themselves up into tasks, then I wonder if manufacturing could done "as a corp"?

Thinking about this as I type; I wonder if this will only really work with T2/Cap production where you could have 1 person building the components whilst the other is building the final item.



I think one of the inherent problems with it is that; only your skill points make you a better manufacturer, your (real) skills don't contribute in any way. Unlike PvP, where you could have less SP's but still be a better player.

If a fish weighs 1 Kilogram plus half its own weight, how much does it weigh? (It's not 1.5kg btw)
Heinrich Skalder
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-07-27 20:52:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinrich Skalder
Manufacturing can be done as a corp easily if you divvy up responsibilities of the build, which is pretty obvious.

The difficult part usually is accountability of the materials or final product, never know if someone will run off with the goods. In order for an industry corp to grow beyond just a community of people who build on their own, the corp has to figure out creative ways to include everyone in the build process, determine profit shares, and establish some form of accountability.

We've got our own systems in place for this, but it took a while to figure out, and we're always improving or fixing it.

Quote:
> Corp has X amount of shares to sell - could be all, could be a maximum % of the total amount to allow CEO to retain majority.
> Members can buy shares of the corp at whatever price.
> The idea then is for the corp to use the invested ISK to make profit and to then return the ISK back to the members.
> This way, people are motivated to work together to make greater amount of ISK as it benefits them all to do so.


In my opinion, the shares system is useless. People could invest by purchasing shares, but more often than not, it comes down to 1 or 2 guys doing all of the work. Considering coming up with the capital to build is pretty easy, it would seem to be alot of hassle to deal with shareholders with a half-a**ed share system.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-07-28 00:32:19 UTC
in order to facilitate group gameplay in industry we need problems that can't be solved by throwing alts at them.

the only two examples we have right now are moon mining and supercapital building.
Geopoly
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-07-28 03:39:54 UTC
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#8 - 2015-07-28 09:23:30 UTC
If you have complete trust with all members in the 'industry' corporation then it will likely work and be advantageous. But if not then the current structure & corp/alliance roles interface does not allow this to happen without the threat of theft and/or sabotage.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-07-29 04:41:09 UTC
Celgar Thurn wrote:
If you have complete trust with all members in the 'industry' corporation then it will likely work and be advantageous. But if not then the current structure & corp/alliance roles interface does not allow this to happen without the threat of theft and/or sabotage.


This is not true. You only need to trust your ceo and directors.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-07-29 06:50:14 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Celgar Thurn wrote:
If you have complete trust with all members in the 'industry' corporation then it will likely work and be advantageous. But if not then the current structure & corp/alliance roles interface does not allow this to happen without the threat of theft and/or sabotage.


This is not true. You only need to trust your ceo and directors.


How does that work with POS research/manufacturing?
Can anyone in corp do it?
Is there some way to give people access to the stuff under industry but not "physical" access in the POS?
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#11 - 2015-07-29 12:57:55 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
in order to facilitate group gameplay in industry we need problems that can't be solved by throwing alts at them.

the only two examples we have right now are moon mining and supercapital building.

I've done both of those by just throwing alts at them.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#12 - 2015-07-29 13:08:42 UTC
Celgar Thurn wrote:
If you have complete trust with all members in the 'industry' corporation then it will likely work and be advantageous. But if not then the current structure & corp/alliance roles interface does not allow this to happen without the threat of theft and/or sabotage.

I used to rent out locked down BPOs and POS facilities.

Total strangers used to join my corp and use my BPOs and POS.

My corp was in an alliance called ZZZ that allowed anyone in the alliance to use my POS facilities.

In many years of operation, nothing ever went wrong and nothing was ever stolen from my facilities.

The corp roles system was perfectly adequate for these purposes prior to Crius. Post Crius, you're ****** however.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-07-29 19:31:08 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
in order to facilitate group gameplay in industry we need problems that can't be solved by throwing alts at them.

the only two examples we have right now are moon mining and supercapital building.

I've done both of those by just throwing alts at them.



you might be right about some low-end moons that nobody really cared about

but you can't take sov to build supers, and you can't expect to take and hold R64s and R32s on your own.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#14 - 2015-07-31 04:18:32 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
you might be right about some low-end moons that nobody really cared about

Yeah, that's a really large number of moons. And there is no cap on how many you can simultaneously mine, except your ability to throw alts at the logistics.

The only thing that makes higher end moon mining "group play" is PvP over the moons, so I don't see how that qualifies as "group gameplay in industry".

Gilbaron wrote:
but you can't take sov to build supers,

Well, we can agree to disagree on that. But you don't actually have to take the sov yourself to build the supers. Just the same as you don't have to mine the ore yourself to make battleships.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-08-01 17:12:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
Haatakan Reppola wrote:


How does that work with POS research/manufacturing?
Can anyone in corp do it?
Is there some way to give people access to the stuff under industry but not "physical" access in the POS?



i somehow forgot to answer your question

the corp roles are pretty complicated, but here we go:

people need factory manager and rent factory/research slot. they also need view access to the hangar with BPOs and take access to a hangar where materials are taken from

anyone with factory manager can deliver jobs that have finished, so for safety reasons they should always be delivered to a hangar where the average member can't access the finished goods.

there used to be a time where everyone with the factory manager role was able to cancel jobs from anyone, but that is no longer the case. now only directors and the CEO can do that.


Bad Bobby wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
you might be right about some low-end moons that nobody really cared about

Yeah, that's a really large number of moons. And there is no cap on how many you can simultaneously mine, except your ability to throw alts at the logistics.

The only thing that makes higher end moon mining "group play" is PvP over the moons, so I don't see how that qualifies as "group gameplay in industry".

Gilbaron wrote:
but you can't take sov to build supers,

Well, we can agree to disagree on that. But you don't actually have to take the sov yourself to build the supers. Just the same as you don't have to mine the ore yourself to make battleships.


Let's agree that we both have different definitions of group gameplay :D
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#16 - 2015-08-02 06:27:22 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Let's agree that we both have different definitions of group gameplay :D

I think we can agree that there simply isn't enough of it.