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Ishtar: The Heavy Drone Boat

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Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2015-06-12 06:44:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
New nerf incoming , but instead of killing this hull lets just make it different.

Isthar (per heavy assault cruiser skill) :
7.5% tracking increase to all drones.
5% of speed increase for Hvy drones
5% increase for EHP on heavy drones


Isthar (per Gallente cruiser skill) :
7.5% of damage increase for heavy and medium drones


Because we need this also

Vexor Navy Issue ( per gallente cruiser skill)
7.5% of damage increase for heavy and medium drones
10% increase for EHP on heavy drones and medium drones.


In both cases.
Drone bay reduction from 125 m to 100m 3

Lets us not forget also about most important change.

Heavy drone size reduction from 25 to 20 m3

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Iain Cariaba
#2 - 2015-06-12 15:07:13 UTC
Nerf Ishtars thread #85432221566657844.

Reported as such.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2015-06-12 15:40:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Nerf Ishtars thread #85432221566657844.

Reported as such.

Just make sure you do not report Fozzie's Dev Blog thread as well. Big smile However, I agree with the notion that Ishtars can become Heavy Drone focused. Or simply only give it Armageddon like bonuses to Sentries: Damage and Hitpoints and it's done.

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My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#4 - 2015-06-12 15:44:12 UTC
Well it should keep 10% damage bonus on heavies...

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#5 - 2015-06-12 16:23:00 UTC
so instead of having 2 battleship weapons just give 1 instead ..and then the gila will just be plain better at everything

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#6 - 2015-06-12 16:32:51 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
so instead of having 2 battleship weapons just give 1 instead ..and then the gila will just be plain better at everything

Exactly my point...

Ishtar needs to keep 10% bonus on heavies.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#7 - 2015-06-13 04:40:16 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
so instead of having 2 battleship weapons just give 1 instead ..and then the gila will just be plain better at everything

Pirate ships outpacing T2 is not so uncommon. The Ishtar would still have some things to offer over the Gila. Fasters drones, better tracking and T2 resist profile.

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#8 - 2015-06-13 04:50:20 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
10% to medium, and heavy drone tracking speed
10% bonus to light, Medium, and Heaby drone hit points
15% bonus to Medium, and Heavy Drone damage
Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):
5000m bonus to Drone operation range
30 N Thrust for drones per level
Role Bonus:
50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

250 drone bay

100mb


This will turn the ishtar into a full fledged heavy ship for pve and a medium drone ship for pvp.

with 4 heavies you will get 7 drone damage thats half a drone less then now but you also get a better tracking bonus,

Also for pvp 8.75 eq mediums with that tracking bonus will be pretty awesome.

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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#9 - 2015-06-13 05:17:33 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
10% to medium, and heavy drone tracking speed
10% bonus to light, Medium, and Heaby drone hit points
15% bonus to Medium, and Heavy Drone damage
Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):
5000m bonus to Drone operation range
30 N Thrust for drones per level
Role Bonus:
50% reduction in Microwarpdrive signature radius penalty

250 drone bay

100mb


This will turn the ishtar into a full fledged heavy ship for pve and a medium drone ship for pvp.

with 4 heavies you will get 7 drone damage thats half a drone less then now but you also get a better tracking bonus,

Also for pvp 8.75 eq mediums with that tracking bonus will be pretty awesome.


Should keep the bonus for light drones anyway.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Corben Arctus
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#10 - 2015-06-13 05:54:29 UTC
Wouldn't mind actually, only using heavies on my ishtar these days anyway.

But if this happens I'll never use sentries anymore, ever. Kind of a wasted 20 day train.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-06-13 07:03:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Odithia
I like the spirit of these proposed changes.

It is important that the Ishtar and VNI don't have a bigger drone bay than the Myrmidon.


I'd prefer something like that
Quote:
Isthar (per heavy assault cruiser skill) :
7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking speed
10% bonus to Light, Medium, and Heavy Drone hit points and damage

Isthar (per Gallente cruiser skill) :
5000m bonus to Drone operation range
7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity (not sure about this tbh maybe an armor rep bonus would be better)
=> 100mb/s because 4 bonused heavy drone are nasty enough


Because we need this also

Vexor Navy Issue
=> 100mb/s, ship will remain very competitive even with just 4 big drones
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-06-13 07:22:29 UTC
I dont know the exact numbers but i've been saying this since the first issues with the Ishtar. This ship needs to be heavy drone focused rather than sentry. It fixes almost all the issues.

Drone travel time gives defenders time to organize a defense (shooting the drones, repositioning on field or getting smart bomb screens in place)
Further there is no instant damage
Close proximity to the target leaves the drones far more open to attack
Even in close combat like wormholes it would only be another strong ship in a long line of strong small gang ships used in wormhole space.

Gallente is supposed to have brawling ships anyways and this fits perfectly.
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#13 - 2015-06-13 10:17:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
Instead of focusing to the Ishtar, why not focusing on the other HACs ?

I mean, if the Ishtar is chosen among its equivalents, it's not ONLY cause of its Sentry bonus but because it's also fast, agile, no ammo dependent and good damage projection.

When you look at the Zealot, it has damage projection, but is kinda stuck to its armor tanking and though, not agile and fast at all.
When you look at the Vagabon, it has agility and speed, but kinda lack some fleet oriented bonuses (Shield boost bonus is awsome for small gangs / solo) AND lack some damage projection unless you go for 750mm Arties with Tremor loaded but then you'll have to sacrifice some tank or damage, and ... Tremor... :x

Eagle is the only one who can compete.
Edit, i should say Cerberus, actually.

So the answer would be to buff or re-balance / re-build the other HACs and stop focusing on the Ishtar.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2015-06-13 11:48:00 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Instead of focusing to the Ishtar, why not focusing on the other HACs ?

I mean, if the Ishtar is chosen among its equivalents, it's not ONLY cause of its Sentry bonus but because it's also fast, agile, no ammo dependent and good damage projection.

When you look at the Zealot, it has damage projection, but is kinda stuck to its armor tanking and though, not agile and fast at all.
When you look at the Vagabon, it has agility and speed, but kinda lack some fleet oriented bonuses (Shield boost bonus is awsome for small gangs / solo) AND lack some damage projection unless you go for 750mm Arties with Tremor loaded but then you'll have to sacrifice some tank or damage, and ... Tremor... :x

Eagle is the only one who can compete.

So the answer would be to buff or re-balance / re-build the other HACs and stop focusing on the Ishtar.

Yea buff every HAC to ishtar level of dps and make every t1 BC and BS obsolete...
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#15 - 2015-06-13 12:27:16 UTC
I would wait until the stats are released before drawing any conclusions.

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Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#16 - 2015-06-13 12:38:34 UTC
You do realize the ishtar is supposed to have range right?

Look at the other HACs, they all have range bonuses and are relatively slow for that role. They're sniper ships.

Muninn = Optimal bonus
Zealot = optimal bonus
Eagle = x2 optimal bonus
Ishtar = optimal bonus

All these ships are supposed to project damage. You take away the ishtar's sentries, and it will become useless in the role it was designed for.

I don't think the dps can be nerfed anymore without severely affecting the ishtar's abilities in other roles (armor brawlers, with heavies). Ideally a medium sized sentry drone that could be balanced around the other HAC's ranges/dps would probably be best. But CCP seems to ignore this proposal.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2015-06-13 12:45:42 UTC
Remove sentry drones from cruisers.

Done.
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#18 - 2015-06-13 13:39:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
Odithia wrote:
Yea buff every HAC to ishtar level of dps and make every t1 BC and BS obsolete...

i said rebuild / rebalance.
The Ishtar is popular not only for its Sentry capacity, but for multiple advantages combined in one single hull.

Stitch Kaneland wrote:
You do realize the ishtar is supposed to have range right?

Look at the other HACs, they all have range bonuses and are relatively slow for that role. They're sniper ships.

Muninn = Optimal bonus
Zealot = optimal bonus
Eagle = x2 optimal bonus
Ishtar = optimal bonus

All these ships are supposed to project damage. You take away the ishtar's sentries, and it will become useless in the role it was designed for.

I don't think the dps can be nerfed anymore without severely affecting the ishtar's abilities in other roles (armor brawlers, with heavies). Ideally a medium sized sentry drone that could be balanced around the other HAC's ranges/dps would probably be best. But CCP seems to ignore this proposal.

Actually there are 2 kinds of Hac a light one and a heavier one, munin and eagle are the heavier ones.
Light HACs are Zealot, Vagabon, Ishtar, Cerberus.
With such a list set, you realise that each one has good points and bad points, except the Ishtar which combines all good points.

For range, Ishtar could have a Bonus to heavy drone control range and speed : problem solved.

And just do that :
baltec1 wrote:
Remove sentry drones from cruisers.

Done.


Yes, interesting suggestion, but how ?
Hemmo Paskiainen
#19 - 2015-06-13 13:43:29 UTC
nooo, just nerf it back to uselessness. Its better for everyone!

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#20 - 2015-06-13 13:59:46 UTC
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
nooo, just nerf it back to uselessness. Its better for everyone!



I feel the deep rooted truth in your statement is probably lost on you.
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