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High security dueling loot problem

Author
Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-06-10 21:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Unknown Shariik
Hello everyone,
I know alot people here will be doing exactly what i want to stop, so it will be hard to get my point across, but if you see my view, great :)
I am a constant dueler in highsec, mainly to get away from the gangs of low so i have a fair fight. After winning fights that would have earned me over one billion isk in loot (not counting friends that have won over five), i am left with an empty wreck because after the amzing fight that i had, a quick fingered, one week old alt in an Imicus was closer to my loot than me. I am hoping i will get some backing to make duels in high security space have secured loot drop instead of wrecks. The current criminal timer system in highsec is BS, on any station (Jita, Hek, Dodixie, etc.) most duels are conducted within the docking range of the station letting any loot thieves instantly grab the loot and dock. The fact that this happens in high security pisses me off because it's high security, not low, i should be able to get my hard earned loot, guarded by police or metal. Now that i'm done with my long statement here are some suggestions i thought of to help fix this.


Stationed loot: Make any loot by a won duelist be scooped by the station straight into your hangar, or contracted to you by concord for a small fee.

Thief timer: Any player who steals a duelists wreck may not warp or dock for 10-30 seconds allowing anyone to attack them (This will remove the problem of small ships stealing loot. It will also make looting more of an art, requiring more skill and possibly logi.)

Loot timer: After a duel is won, no player but the duel victor may loot the wreck for 10-30 seconds (This will ensure the duelist gets his loot about 80% of the time unless he fights without a prop mod or gets bumped)

Concord assistance: The losers wreck will be instantly looted by concord and replaced with a secure cargo container, for the victor only to access.


I feel that at the moment looting from honorable duelists takes very little to no skill and needs to be changed in some way.

I am open to any suggestions and hope you guys like the idea :)

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2015-06-10 22:00:13 UTC
Explain how this mechanic is beneficial to the game in any way, when it can simply be used by any freighter pilot to ensure that their loot is given to their own alt rather than the group trying to steal their stuff, or a dozen other ways to abuse mechanics like these?
Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-06-10 22:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Unknown Shariik
Danika Princip wrote:
Explain how this mechanic is beneficial to the game in any way, when it can simply be used by any freighter pilot to ensure that their loot is given to their own alt rather than the group trying to steal their stuff, or a dozen other ways to abuse mechanics like these?


With mechanics like these, you wont have anything to abuse. And not everyone has a spare freighter pilot laying around. Im talking about a real 1v1 where you don't need alts, not even going to get into links and fleet boosts.

Unless of course you like to take advantage of other peoples success.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-06-10 23:06:38 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Explain how this mechanic is beneficial to the game in any way, when it can simply be used by any freighter pilot to ensure that their loot is given to their own alt rather than the group trying to steal their stuff, or a dozen other ways to abuse mechanics like these?


With mechanics like these, you wont have anything to abuse. And not everyone has a spare freighter pilot laying around. Im talking about a real 1v1 where you don't need alts, not even going to get into links and fleet boosts.

Unless of course you like to take advantage of other peoples success.



So what happens when a freighter flying along with an alt in a tornado, and an active duel between the two at all times, gets engaged on a gate somewhere? The tornado wins the duel, so does that mean he gets all the loot with one of your little mechanics?


Remember: if you find yourself in a fair fight, one of you has made a terrible mistake somewhere along the line.

but sure, go ahead and assume that everyone who doesn't think your abusable as hell mechanic is a bad idea is saying so purely for personal gain. Roll
Mag's
Azn Empire
#5 - 2015-06-11 00:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-06-11 05:52:10 UTC
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#7 - 2015-06-11 07:35:17 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.


Really?

My word has HiSec changed that much over the years?

As I recall your can thief gets a suspect flag when he grabs the loot which seems reasonable, perhaps you would be better off staging your duels far enough away from a stations docking ring that insta docking isn't an option thus solving your problem.


NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-06-11 15:36:02 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.


Really?

My word has HiSec changed that much over the years?

As I recall your can thief gets a suspect flag when he grabs the loot which seems reasonable, perhaps you would be better off staging your duels far enough away from a stations docking ring that insta docking isn't an option thus solving your problem.




that's not how it goes in most dueling areas. Most happen in station range because neither person has the guts to leave.
But in that case don't you agree a little with what i'm saying?

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-06-11 17:52:19 UTC
Nope. Just get better.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-06-11 20:31:58 UTC
Have any of you guys even won a duel to know what it's like to lose loot?
Cause if you don't duel then please don't comment here you don't know what i'm talking about.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#11 - 2015-06-11 21:00:00 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Have any of you guys even won a duel to know what it's like to lose loot?
Cause if you don't duel then please don't comment here you don't know what i'm talking about.


People lose "their" stuff all the time. It's not just a duel thing.

Welcome to EVE.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-06-11 21:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Unknown Shariik
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Have any of you guys even won a duel to know what it's like to lose loot?
Cause if you don't duel then please don't comment here you don't know what i'm talking about.


People lose "their" stuff all the time. It's not just a duel thing.

Welcome to EVE.


I've been playing for 3 years now and dueling is supposed to be fair not free loot for other people.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-06-11 21:07:28 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Explain how this mechanic is beneficial to the game in any way, when it can simply be used by any freighter pilot to ensure that their loot is given to their own alt rather than the group trying to steal their stuff, or a dozen other ways to abuse mechanics like these?


With mechanics like these, you wont have anything to abuse. And not everyone has a spare freighter pilot laying around. Im talking about a real 1v1 where you don't need alts, not even going to get into links and fleet boosts.

Unless of course you like to take advantage of other peoples success.



So what happens when a freighter flying along with an alt in a tornado, and an active duel between the two at all times, gets engaged on a gate somewhere? The tornado wins the duel, so does that mean he gets all the loot with one of your little mechanics?


Remember: if you find yourself in a fair fight, one of you has made a terrible mistake somewhere along the line.

but sure, go ahead and assume that everyone who doesn't think your abusable as hell mechanic is a bad idea is saying so purely for personal gain. Roll


Not exactly sure what you're talking about, a duel has to be accepted by both people to be a duel, its not killing someone in highsec.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-06-11 21:11:40 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.


Really?

My word has HiSec changed that much over the years?

As I recall your can thief gets a suspect flag when he grabs the loot which seems reasonable, perhaps you would be better off staging your duels far enough away from a stations docking ring that insta docking isn't an option thus solving your problem.




Jita has about a 50k docking range around the station, so do most of the other trade hubs, although they do have less.
Since you can have three characters per account, say you have two loot alts and a main. When one gets a suspect timer you just dock and go onto the other account to loot next time. Its useless unless off station.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#15 - 2015-06-11 21:49:01 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.


It's not your loot unless you can get it to your hanger, and then it's only yours for as long as you don't let me scam you out of it.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-06-11 21:58:31 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.


It's not your loot unless you can get it to your hanger, and then it's only yours for as long as you don't let me scam you out of it.

If I won the duel it should be my loot. It's not lowsec.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2015-06-11 22:44:22 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:


Not exactly sure what you're talking about, a duel has to be accepted by both people to be a duel, its not killing someone in highsec.



Yes, genius.

And when I have a duel between myself and my freighter alt, and someone else kills the freighter which I have agressed during the duel, what happens? I still win the duel, so the loot is mine, right?

Please explain WHY you think highsec is safesec?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#18 - 2015-06-12 00:57:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.
Oh but there is a penalty for it, you just failed to take advantage of it.

Let me explain something to you. High security means high security, not total security. Just because you have access to loot without chance of being flagged, doesn't mean it is yours. As seen by the fact someone took it off you.
If you wish in your view to take less risk by duelling at a station, then that comes with other risks. One of which is the chance someone will beat you in the loot game. Winning the duel, does not mean you win the loot.

Learn to play better. Welcome to Eve.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#19 - 2015-06-12 07:32:40 UTC
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Samillian wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:
Mag's wrote:
So you're complaining someone beat you in the loot competition and now you wish for CCP to change the rules and give you hand holding mechanics?

lol no.


No i'm complaining that someone beat me to MY loot and gets no penalty for it.
High security is high security, not steal everything.


Really?

My word has HiSec changed that much over the years?

As I recall your can thief gets a suspect flag when he grabs the loot which seems reasonable, perhaps you would be better off staging your duels far enough away from a stations docking ring that insta docking isn't an option thus solving your problem.




that's not how it goes in most dueling areas. Most happen in station range because neither person has the guts to leave.
But in that case don't you agree a little with what i'm saying?


Not in the slightest, if people don't have the testicular fortitude to fight away from the docking ring thus making loot scooping a more risky proposition for the offender it is very much their problem and not a reason to change mechanics pointlessly.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Unknown Shariik
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-06-12 07:57:35 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Unknown Shariik wrote:


Not exactly sure what you're talking about, a duel has to be accepted by both people to be a duel, its not killing someone in highsec.



Yes, genius.

And when I have a duel between myself and my freighter alt, and someone else kills the freighter which I have agressed during the duel, what happens? I still win the duel, so the loot is mine, right?

Please explain WHY you think highsec is safesec?


Yes that is true it's a fault, but maybe most damage gets the loot? Just not some random person.

"Be strong, be brave, shove your enemies face into the ground"

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