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Is it me, or does it seem I could skip medium drones?

Author
Bert Zangle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-06-11 13:02:40 UTC
Sorry, the title is a bit simplistic and sensationalist :D What I mean is this:

I'm currently flying a Vexor in level 3 missions. Skills are fairly decent I would say, and I have fit that works well (no room for a Omnidirectional Tracking Link however), so I'm quite happy with my ISK/hour.

I use Hobgoblin II, and Integrated Hammerheads. Now, the Hobs are a safety measure for when a hole group of elite frigs show up, although I should say that the IHHs perform well enough against those as well. The IHHs take care of almost anything else efficiently.

Now I started testing Integrated Ogres on the same missions. They are about 50% slower, sure, but their tracking is pretty close to HHs, and their damage is double. So, I am getting the impression that I could skip the mediums and rely on light+heavy for level 3.

Sure, the limited drone cargo of the Vexor is a factor as well, but I do wonder if the point I'm trying to make (light+heavy seems to make using mediums less of a priority) has any value at all.
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-06-11 13:22:15 UTC
Gila

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#3 - 2015-06-11 13:25:15 UTC
For a Vexor, the optimal drone layout for max damage is 2 heavies+2mediums+1light which equals the same bandwidth as 3 heavies but more damage and better application.

Also bear in mind that while their tracking may be near the same, the signature resolution of the drones are different. HH are medium drones and got the signature resolution of medium sized weapons which is 125m. Ogres on the other hand has a signature resolution on 400m which brings their effective tracking much lover since a smaller resolution = better tracking.

❤️️💛💚💙💜

Bert Zangle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-06-11 13:38:02 UTC
Mizhir wrote:

Also bear in mind that while their tracking may be near the same, the signature resolution of the drones are different. HH are medium drones and got the signature resolution of medium sized weapons which is 125m. Ogres on the other hand has a signature resolution on 400m which brings their effective tracking much lover since a smaller resolution = better tracking.


That's the part I forgot, I guess. Any estimate how much that reduces effective tracking against a frig sized target, i.e. by which factor do I need to "adjust" the Heavy tracking when comparing it to medium tracking against frigs?


Mizhir wrote:
For a Vexor, the optimal drone layout for max damage is 2 heavies+2mediums+1light which equals the same bandwidth as 3 heavies but more damage and better application.


I tried that combination, but their extremely different speed makes the damage application look pretty uneven to me, so for missions, I usually go with 5 hobs if there's a large enough number of frigs on the field, then full flight of IHHs to take out the rest.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2015-06-11 13:38:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Gila

This.
Imagine clowns with chainsaws. Chainsaws that are on fire.
Now imagine there were TWO clowns like this. The fun you could have!
With eight more clowns in the car just waiting to jump out with their own chainsaws as well, you can only imagine the fun at that point.
Oh, and was the fact that it has a nearly battleship level tank and cruiser speed/sig mentioned at all?
So you have a high speed clown car capable of spewing forth flaming chainsaw wielding clowns who will mulch all that offends you at your fingertips.

Is there any better reason for medium drones?

Over 600 dps from drones alone. Battleship tank. secondary weapon system just in case 600 drone DPS wasn't enough.
versatile fitting variants. I know I'm sperging about the ship, but it kind of justifies the drones as well.
Likewise in the case of say a Sacrilege, you can only muster a full rack of medium drones... which gives it a decent fallback weapon system for dealing with the small and the fast. These are not the only ones, just the immediate ones that come to mind.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

BeeHaw Bocadotsu
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-06-11 13:55:22 UTC
Next to the Sentries, the next OP drones are......take a guess? and their master is already mentioned in this thread.
Bert Zangle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-06-11 14:08:25 UTC
BeeHaw Bocadotsu wrote:
Next to the Sentries, the next OP drones are......take a guess? and their master is already mentioned in this thread.


You mean the Gila I guess.

Only thing is, I didn't ask "Do medium drones suck in general?", I asked: Flying what I fly, on the missions that I fly, does it make sense for *me* to skip them.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2015-06-11 14:17:57 UTC
Well, eventually you are going to want a change of ships. It happens to us all.
Being that you appear to be focusing on drones, the responses you were given weren't necessarily directed at the hull you were driving so much as effective application of the weapon system in question.
Nobody hatin on the vexor here. We were just simply suggesting means in which you can apply that same weapon system to great effect.
What happens now is transitory. Later is a different matter.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Arla Sarain
#9 - 2015-06-11 16:11:34 UTC
Bert Zangle wrote:


That's the part I forgot, I guess. Any estimate how much that reduces effective tracking against a frig sized target, i.e. by which factor do I need to "adjust" the Heavy tracking when comparing it to medium tracking against frigs?


Depends entirely on what the frigate is doing.

Since the frigate is likely pissing his pants, he is likely burning like mad. The drones are hence trailing behind him and have 0 angular velocity on him. Hence the mismatching resolution has negligible impact and what you should worry about more is how fast your drones are.

Ironically the frigate can't stand still, cos then he risks being hit by guns.

Scissors, Paper, Scissors.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-06-11 23:59:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Praxis Ginimic
The "optimal drone damage" set-up that gets bantied around is for a brawling vexor... its a pvp tool and doesn't make any sense in a situation where your drones need to do too much (or any) travel, like in missions. To be honest, you might get more traction from using 3 navy sentries in pve. The paper dps is lower but the range and instant application more than make up for it and you still have room for a flight of lights in case that swarm of frigs gets too close.

Edit: that said, you will want to use other ships eventually and do some pvp so train medium drones. They are fantastic
Paranoid Loyd
#11 - 2015-06-12 00:10:46 UTC
Bert Zangle wrote:
Only thing is, I didn't ask "Do medium drones suck in general?", I asked: Flying what I fly, on the missions that I fly, does it make sense for *me* to skip them.


Praxis Ginimic wrote:
The "optimal drone damage" set-up that gets bantied around is for a brawling vexor... its a pvp tool and doesn't make any sense in a situation where your drones need to do too much (or any) travel, like in missions. To be honest, you might get more traction from using 3 navy sentries in pve. The paper dps is lower but the range and instant application more than make up for it and you still have room for a flight of lights in case that swarm of frigs gets too close.

Edit: that said, you will want to use other ships eventually and do some pvp so train medium drones. They are fantastic

This

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-06-12 00:20:14 UTC
Assuming you're on a drone training remap, you should just train all the drones since they're all very good. If you're not on a drone training remap (Mem/Per) then yes you can skip the medium drones for now, but you WILL definitely want to train them at some point, trust me.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#13 - 2015-06-12 03:13:42 UTC
What you're asking, somewhat re-phrased, is:
"Hi, I fly cruiser sized hulls from the Gallente race. But I don't want to train medium drones. Does that make sense?"

My general answer is:
No, that does not make sense.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#14 - 2015-06-12 04:38:09 UTC
when it comes to pve (outside of exploration) Gila is almost never the answer.

Skipping meds is probably not a bad idea for pve. Meds were too good for a long time so no one ever used lights, they got nerfed and tbh I've never used them since. I think they boosted them a bit at some point, but dunno.

although the gila does look like a fun pvp ship, so maybe a decent idea to train meds at some point.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-06-12 10:27:18 UTC
Watching cocky MWD frigates squirm trying to shake off Valks that go 6m/s (VNI + Drone Nav comp) is worth the training time alone.

Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#16 - 2015-06-12 10:37:14 UTC
Switch Savage wrote:
Watching cocky MWD frigates squirm trying to shake off Valks that go 6m/s (VNI + Drone Nav comp) is worth the training time alone.



inb4 HG Snaked linked Garmur laughs all the way to the bank.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-06-12 11:03:33 UTC
Got 9.3k Acolytes for that heh.
Bert Zangle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-06-12 11:48:11 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
What you're asking, somewhat re-phrased, is:
"Hi, I fly cruiser sized hulls from the Gallente race. But I don't want to train medium drones. Does that make sense?"

My general answer is:
No, that does not make sense.




Haha, nice. Alright, putting together what I learned from the thread (I'm a noob, forgive my initial stupidty :D)...

(a) skipping mediums *right now, in my situation* might make a bit of sense

(b) in the long run (different ships, pvp instead of mission running), I need to train them.

Roughly correct?

Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#19 - 2015-06-12 14:36:07 UTC
Switch Savage wrote:
Got 9.3k Acolytes for that heh.


They still won't do **** because of derpy drone AI
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#20 - 2015-06-12 16:30:06 UTC
Bert Zangle wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
What you're asking, somewhat re-phrased, is:
"Hi, I fly cruiser sized hulls from the Gallente race. But I don't want to train medium drones. Does that make sense?"

My general answer is:
No, that does not make sense.




Haha, nice. Alright, putting together what I learned from the thread (I'm a noob, forgive my initial stupidty :D)...

(a) skipping mediums *right now, in my situation* might make a bit of sense

(b) in the long run (different ships, pvp instead of mission running), I need to train them.

Roughly correct?



Glad you didn't take that as too much of a smart-ass reply. I really meant to just add a different point of perspective to the question.

Yeah, PvE they are not as useful. Imo, good Lights are the most important, then the choices are about even. I did Mediums next, but that don't mean it's right.

I'm a long time advocate of good drone skills. Even if they are not inside a drone bonused ship. Good drones are just awesome.
I'm not sure of your overall skills, so I don't know, but you might have more important things to train.
The second you think you're good to go in most other area's, I'd put a month or 2 into the drone category.
All the supports to V except maybe durability to IV.

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