EVE General Discussion

Reading from reactions at forums towards new sov system, there is not gonna be "shaking status quo" yet for a looong time, unfortunately.

Only answer can be that big coalitions should be made to spread out into each of those thousands of sov systems (if they wanna control them), but naturally that must be worth it...

I would imagine that, to make up the difference statistically between hisec and nullsec, to assume that it was any number that would make a marked difference in that statistical dichotomy, people would need to have a very large number of accounts active in hisec with only one in nullsec. To date, I have only contrary evidence to that idea. You are free to assume what you'd like, though it doesn't seem likely as CCP are very concerned that players aren't going to nullsec, and that idea is likely coming from activity records.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, afterwards. Are you saying there is no way for PVE to be performed in a way that doesn't make it a theme park MMORPG? Are you saying that increasing PVP is going to generate more interest from some heretofore non-participating body? Are you assuming that a large amount of people will return in order to play because these changes are precisely why they would not have played in the first place? You're free to assume that as well, of course, but I would have a very hard time believing that. The larger gaming universe has quite a bit of PVP out there, and EVE (like all things) actually doesn't exist in a vacuum. Space sim MMORPGs used to be a more niche classification, but now that EVE has new and upcoming faster and nastier competition, it's of course losing players. Eventually, someone was going to come to rain on the parade, and suddenly people who've tolerated elements they didn't like for the sake of setting before really don't have a reason to anymore.

The problem, and the reason I call the current state of affairs a design flaw, is that it's very sensitive to player tolerances. It isn't even a matter of PVE; games these days give you PVP and PVE both in multiple scales, and EVE's simply always been held back by the game's almost shocking inflexibility. One would think that EVE's engine is capable of almost anything, but it's largely been used for, as you'd call it, a vacuum. Nothing. I say largely because of course elements exist, rat sites, missions, etc, the game is far from a pure sandbox experience. However, that aspect of the game has been underdeveloped because the PVP element was installed pervasively. Back in 2004, this was already becoming well known as a bad industry move, but EVE had been in development for a long time; even if they'd had the sense to change it they didn't have the time. You can see that, even though sci-fi games still tend towards PVP, other games are already distancing themselves from this approach. Star Citizen is going to get a slider and still is going to take a fairly hard hit from those whom might have otherwise supported it. Elite: Dangerous still has a group numbering in the thousands that essentially makes their game PVE only, and that's with REALLY little to do.

But the entire idea that EVE is a social game (despite CCP saying, very explicitly, that they're having HUGE issues with players socializing) or that people just live in a vacuum of PVE content (despite CCP also having a huge issue getting people into corporations or even out of hisec) just seems to be turning a blind eye to the problem. Even if what you say is true, and you're welcome to your opinions, EVE's greatest weakness is its limitation, despite the fact that it was supposed to be a game of infinite possibilities. It wasn't long before everyone realized that EVE had a very conservative and limited approach. Before, it wasn't an issue; players dropped out of hisec prodigiously but there were enough incoming players to keep the game ticking over. Retention is becoming an issue now, and EVE simply may have hit peak-niche.

Whatever the reason, I simply don't buy the argument that EVE can't be a broader and more popular game than it is without harming established systems. In many ways, they could be improved if the PVP were more voluntary (quite a few of the arguments about EVE from its current hardcore playerbase is that CCP has done too much to protect especially new players, but this is a natural outgrowth of those players essentially having no choice in the matter at present). I suppose my view is that if PVP is going to have the life drained out of it if an EVE player even has an option of avoiding the current issue, the entire issue becomes moot.

If CCP has to force people to play the player-driven content because even their underdeveloped hisec areas are better populated, then the idea that players are the game's greatest content isn't even a reality now. If, given a choice, the majority of players would play EVE without it, then no matter how much you disparage it, it's still being chosen over the PVP aspect. Nobody at CCP is fretting that the game's hemorrhaging players because everyone's busy PVPing in nullsec and no one's flying around in hisec. The problem is pretty definitive.

I suppose that unlike you, I'd rather the game change if it must, preserve everything it can, and try to become a more varied and interesting game. I mean, if you don't want it at that point for whatever reason, I wouldn't mind taking it off your hands. I certainly hope the game doesn't die due to its calcification; I think there's more to the game than you give it credit for.

You make some very good points there.

Some thoughts on "achievements in games":



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I found the achievements feature so irritating I shut it down. That's not content and now that I look at the bigger picture, the addition of them to the game is a bad sign.
(no disrespect to the devs who did the work, it's about the concept not the implementation)

I really don't agree with people saying that it's not possible to add truely new content to EVE, and even less with people saying that there should be no content outside of PvP.
The introduction of Wormspace was clearly a new mechanism creating new play styles.
The introduction of Planetary Interaction has brought a new (admittedly boring) gameplay.
The improvment to exploration, with the introduction of the hacking game has brought new content.
The idea of Walk in Station, even if it has been a catastrophic failure because of CCP's incompetence, was the acme of truely new content in EVE's history.
It is definitely possible to add new content to EVE. Only the narrow-minded bitter vets pewpewers are not able to admit it because they don't accept that one can have fun in other ways than they have fun.
If only CCP was using their energy on creating new (working and tested) content instead of fixing what was not broken (UI, icons...), EVE would keep much more players playing, every kind of players.

*Slow clap*

You are able to say: "I don't like!", "This sucks!" and "I hate this!" but you are unable to say: "CCPlease, make this." Give some examples for "new content" so people see that you can more than crying.

My idea is to mess highsec up. What is your idea?



Please give me a example of content which is not connected to PVP.

pretty sure the original vision for the game (by it's creators) was as a pvp focused one

which would mean the pve exists to support the pvp

Which doesn't really excuse the pve from being so terribly bad. It's not even hard. I'm not going to beat a dead horse here.

People play dark souls just as much for the difficult enemy encounters as for the pvp covenants.

So your 0.0 is dead and you want to fix it by killing high-sec?

Well... People always do it in RL: instead of fixing their business they kill others. Nothing new.

From what ive gatherd of information, after the sov changes, "the region owners" will still claim ownership and demand rental for systems in their region... even tho the inhabitans have sov. If they refuse, the region owners will drop a big one on ya and ure out. So im my view, the basic idea of New sov changes where made in good faith, but in reality it wont change much unless u posses a big fleet to Counter a eviction notice from the region owners.