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[Carnyx] The Jackdaw

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SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#621 - 2015-06-07 22:56:55 UTC
I like the jackdaw for small gang/brawling potential. Anything bigger than that, and its pretty much useless. Especially as LML configuration.
Forget kiting big fleets with this hull. At least with the confessor you can make that work. And if your stuck with any kind of tidi, you'll be so much more happy that you stuck with confessor. You will at least have instant damage application with your lazors. And from what I could tell, much more consistent damage application.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#622 - 2015-06-08 01:24:11 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I like the jackdaw for small gang/brawling potential. Anything bigger than that, and its pretty much useless. Especially as LML configuration.
Forget kiting big fleets with this hull. At least with the confessor you can make that work. And if your stuck with any kind of tidi, you'll be so much more happy that you stuck with confessor. You will at least have instant damage application with your lazors. And from what I could tell, much more consistent damage application.



Jackdaw burns through rockets like crazy...
Got a 8.4km rage range and it fires the second volley before the first even hits...

I'm going to be spending a lot on ammo for this thing.... assuming it survives that long.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#623 - 2015-06-08 14:02:10 UTC
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I like the jackdaw for small gang/brawling potential. Anything bigger than that, and its pretty much useless. Especially as LML configuration.
Forget kiting big fleets with this hull. At least with the confessor you can make that work. And if your stuck with any kind of tidi, you'll be so much more happy that you stuck with confessor. You will at least have instant damage application with your lazors. And from what I could tell, much more consistent damage application.



Jackdaw burns through rockets like crazy...
Got a 8.4km rage range and it fires the second volley before the first even hits...

I'm going to be spending a lot on ammo for this thing.... assuming it survives that long.



It does burn through them, but therein lies the other reason for going rockets instead of LML, rate of fire. I can see a lot of situations when brawling when the quick rate of fire is going to make all the difference between wrecking or getting wrekt. Especially when you are fighting small ships, you don't want to explode because your quarry survived the first volley and popped you before your second volley even goes off.

Once again another reason to love the confessor.
HELLBOUNDMAN
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#624 - 2015-06-08 15:52:12 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I like the jackdaw for small gang/brawling potential. Anything bigger than that, and its pretty much useless. Especially as LML configuration.
Forget kiting big fleets with this hull. At least with the confessor you can make that work. And if your stuck with any kind of tidi, you'll be so much more happy that you stuck with confessor. You will at least have instant damage application with your lazors. And from what I could tell, much more consistent damage application.



Jackdaw burns through rockets like crazy...
Got a 8.4km rage range and it fires the second volley before the first even hits...

I'm going to be spending a lot on ammo for this thing.... assuming it survives that long.



It does burn through them, but therein lies the other reason for going rockets instead of LML, rate of fire. I can see a lot of situations when brawling when the quick rate of fire is going to make all the difference between wrecking or getting wrekt. Especially when you are fighting small ships, you don't want to explode because your quarry survived the first volley and popped you before your second volley even goes off.

Once again another reason to love the confessor.



That reload time though.... It's awesome!
However, I think this ship was balanced with this reload time.... Based on it's slow velocity, I think it would have been much better off with a damage buff, range, or web bonus.....

It's slow, and ineffective with LMLs, so it needs something better than a reload time, despite the reload time being pretty cool.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#625 - 2015-06-08 16:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleb Seremshur
LMLs win for me thanks to range. Also their volley is a good 2.5x higher so where it counts you can practically volley straight through some reps.

http://s83.photobucket.com/user/MrBenis/media/killmailsjackdaw_zps9ouzgqy0.jpg.html

Hopefully the image is big enough, it seems to have been shrunk when I try to look at it.
For reference all fights at the time of death were solo 1v1 with no links (on my part) involved.
The fit I've been using is t2, except for the 2 most recent ones which had 2x faction (not deadspace) modules installed.

I consider my fit to be reasonably sound, able to fight off linked garmurs at a pinch as well as some unlucky chap found out today. Getting pointed at 45km away makes me upset.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#626 - 2015-06-08 19:41:38 UTC
It would take a pretty dumb garmur to stick around for your volleys to hit. Even if they have to align somewhere and click warp.
I think I've only fought one ASB garmur before and it died in about 2 volleys (at 80+km with aurora). That would be about 1 cycle time for beam lasers.
How many cycles do you think I'd manage compared to a jackdaw firing at around 100km away, before that first volley of missiles hits?
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#627 - 2015-06-09 02:22:34 UTC
Well seeing as you can't shoot that far I guess you get 0
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#628 - 2015-06-09 02:57:57 UTC
It can hit to 70 km, it has flight time of 7.5 and a cycle of 6, you aren't wasting shots.

My preferred fit has managed to get LML, a T2 MSE, and combat probes. The people complaining about tight fits don't use nongank destroyers and the other D3 set a bad bar.

Quote:
I consider my fit to be reasonably sound, able to fight off linked garmurs at a pinch as well as some unlucky chap found out today. Getting pointed at 45km away makes me upset.
Damps are suddenly your friend when that happens.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#629 - 2015-06-09 09:52:19 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
It can hit to 70 km, it has flight time of 7.5 and a cycle of 6, you aren't wasting shots.

My preferred fit has managed to get LML, a T2 MSE, and combat probes. The people complaining about tight fits don't use nongank destroyers and the other D3 set a bad bar.

Quote:
I consider my fit to be reasonably sound, able to fight off linked garmurs at a pinch as well as some unlucky chap found out today. Getting pointed at 45km away makes me upset.
Damps are suddenly your friend when that happens.


65km on my fit. Must be missing a level 5 skill somewhere.

Have you considered using navy medium extenders?

[Jackdaw, Jackdaw bling LML copy]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender
[Empty Med slot]
Warp Disruptor II
[Empty Med slot]
5MN Microwarpdrive II

Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Expanded Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Ancillary Current Router II

Currently republic extenders are 7mil a piece or you can grab cal navy for 10 mil each. 14k or 14.5k ehp respectively and fittings to spare for other mids. approx 40cpu and 3 pg.

as for damping that requires me to actually have them fit no?
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#630 - 2015-06-09 11:27:26 UTC
I made cuts to dps for speed and utility. Sticking to cheap means when it all settles it will cost 45-55mil. And it has sub 2 tick align.

I suppose I could move up to T2 rigs.


[Jackdaw, LML]

Ballistic Control System II
Overdrive Injector System II

Warp Disruptor II
5MN Microwarpdrive II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script

Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Light Missile
Expanded Probe Launcher II, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#631 - 2015-06-09 11:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleb Seremshur
Personally I'd just fit a passive EM hardener and an em rig rather than the invul, because it's cap expensive and if it shuts off so does 18% of your resists in EM. FWIW that jackdaw does have respectable cap but you have no injector and iirc the confessor/svipul are still faster with an extra spare high which will present some problems for you if they elect to run even a single small neut and let you burn your cap with the micro. You would cap out in 53 seconds. Even less when considering the invul, painter and damp. 30 seconds.

I'd be very careful about flying this ship in pvp especially against another t3d.

[Jackdaw, Jackdaw LML kite]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Caldari Navy Medium Shield Extender
Caldari Navy Medium Shield Extender
Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I
Dread Guristas Warp Disruptor
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Expanded Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Ancillary Current Router II

Is probably a fit i'd personally run. Totals up to 100mil ship + fittings, flavour for taste with your favourite implants.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#632 - 2015-06-09 12:09:36 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I like the jackdaw for small gang/brawling potential. Anything bigger than that, and its pretty much useless. Especially as LML configuration.
Forget kiting big fleets with this hull. At least with the confessor you can make that work. And if your stuck with any kind of tidi, you'll be so much more happy that you stuck with confessor. You will at least have instant damage application with your lazors. And from what I could tell, much more consistent damage application.



Jackdaw burns through rockets like crazy...
Got a 8.4km rage range and it fires the second volley before the first even hits...

I'm going to be spending a lot on ammo for this thing.... assuming it survives that long.



It does burn through them, but therein lies the other reason for going rockets instead of LML, rate of fire. I can see a lot of situations when brawling when the quick rate of fire is going to make all the difference between wrecking or getting wrekt. Especially when you are fighting small ships, you don't want to explode because your quarry survived the first volley and popped you before your second volley even goes off.

Once again another reason to love the confessor.


A garmur in a 40-45km orbit at 7km/s is already safe from sharpshooter LMLs. That's like snakes only if I'm not mistaken.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#633 - 2015-06-09 12:33:10 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:



It does burn through them, but therein lies the other reason for going rockets instead of LML, rate of fire. I can see a lot of situations when brawling when the quick rate of fire is going to make all the difference between wrecking or getting wrekt. Especially when you are fighting small ships, you don't want to explode because your quarry survived the first volley and popped you before your second volley even goes off.

Once again another reason to love the confessor.


A garmur in a 40-45km orbit at 7km/s is already safe from sharpshooter LMLs. That's like snakes only if I'm not mistaken.


I forced one off today. They're not completely safe I'd say. To that effect I always carry a standard crash booster to up the meagre dps as well. When my garmur friend warped off he had about 30% armour remaining.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#634 - 2015-06-10 03:16:20 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
I like the jackdaw for small gang/brawling potential. Anything bigger than that, and its pretty much useless. Especially as LML configuration.
Forget kiting big fleets with this hull. At least with the confessor you can make that work. And if your stuck with any kind of tidi, you'll be so much more happy that you stuck with confessor. You will at least have instant damage application with your lazors. And from what I could tell, much more consistent damage application.



Jackdaw burns through rockets like crazy...
Got a 8.4km rage range and it fires the second volley before the first even hits...

I'm going to be spending a lot on ammo for this thing.... assuming it survives that long.



It does burn through them, but therein lies the other reason for going rockets instead of LML, rate of fire. I can see a lot of situations when brawling when the quick rate of fire is going to make all the difference between wrecking or getting wrekt. Especially when you are fighting small ships, you don't want to explode because your quarry survived the first volley and popped you before your second volley even goes off.

Once again another reason to love the confessor.


A garmur in a 40-45km orbit at 7km/s is already safe from sharpshooter LMLs. That's like snakes only if I'm not mistaken.


7km/s orbit requires both MG Snakes and links, you'd be able to get only around 5.5-6 with just links or just snakes, cold. When linked + HG Snaked Garmurs are immune to pretty much every kind of anti tackle weapons except Lights from another Garmur or an Orthrus.

Coming back to the Jackdaw, it's completely outclassed in the LML role. Flycatcher does it much much better. It's faster and has much more reliable range since going into sharpshooter gives your 'kite' D3 the speed of a plated Cruiser. Flycatcher has more dps, more alpha, 5 mids so it gets just as much utility as the Jackdaw does. The fitting is quite solid and it can fit LMLs quite comfortably while maintaining a tank. Most importantly, Flycatcher gets an application bonus (which is absolutely huge for killing frigs) and allows it to use fury against tackled frigates and against other destroyers.

The only things the Jackdaw has going for it in an LML role is marginally better tank in speed mode, and much better tank in defense mode (which is basically just a last ditch effort if you get scram/webbed and try to kill the tackler). Also much better agility, which is the only real advantage in a kiting LML setup. The rest of the 'advantages' doesn't really matter for the role.

Either rocket brawl or go home with the Jackdaw IMO. CCP has pretty much pigeonholed it into that role by nuking the speed. This is pretty much exactly what they did to the Corax which is easily one of the least flown dessies from my experience.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#635 - 2015-06-10 03:37:44 UTC
Corax is a fleet vessel. When used in a fleet it is vicious. Not everything has to be great in solo and not every solo ship scales well in fleets.

Jackdaw can kind of go either way.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#636 - 2015-06-10 05:02:43 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Corax is a fleet vessel. When used in a fleet it is vicious. Not everything has to be great in solo and not every solo ship scales well in fleets.

Jackdaw can kind of go either way.


That's a bad argument cause the Talwar completely outclasses the Corax, better fittings, faster, same dps, same alpha, same range AND it has an MWD sig bonus which makes it significantly better in fleets. The only thing the Corax gets is an extra mid which it can't fit because of the horrendous fittings lol.

There's just absolutely no reason to use a LML Corax for anything. Ever.

If you've seen Suitonia's recent video on the Corax, its speed is so bad, that it's like 10m/s faster than a 1600plate Maller, which is pretty much the slowest Cruiser out there.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#637 - 2015-06-10 05:30:58 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Corax is a fleet vessel. When used in a fleet it is vicious. Not everything has to be great in solo and not every solo ship scales well in fleets.

Jackdaw can kind of go either way.


That's a bad argument cause the Talwar completely outclasses the Corax, better fittings, faster, same dps, same alpha, same range AND it has an MWD sig bonus which makes it significantly better in fleets. The only thing the Corax gets is an extra mid which it can't fit because of the horrendous fittings lol.

There's just absolutely no reason to use a LML Corax for anything. Ever.

If you've seen Suitonia's recent video on the Corax, its speed is so bad, that it's like 10m/s faster than a 1600plate Maller, which is pretty much the slowest Cruiser out there.


Here is a reasonably cheap fit that I've used when flying in fleets and doing FW plexes. Why this fit? It smashes frigates off the field in 2 hits.

[Corax, corax lml]

Ballistic Control System I
Ballistic Control System I

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Prototype Sensor Booster
1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner

Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile

Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

3% cpu implant required. Really all this ship needs is like 10cpu and it's good to go.

It's a glass cannon, but as a dark eldar player that's the kind of thing I do.
Runjuan Junhom
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#638 - 2015-06-11 07:35:06 UTC
Any News when it will be add to EVEMON ?

Regards

Runjuan
Amonios Zula
Aeon Ascendant
#639 - 2015-06-11 20:52:02 UTC
Runjuan Junhom wrote:
Any News when it will be add to EVEMON ?

Regards

Runjuan

Heh yeah, just finished training "Unknown IV" Lol
Suzuha Yamada
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#640 - 2015-07-05 10:06:08 UTC
I love my jackdaw soooo much. Having shield rechargers and a cap recharger makes it one kick ass passive shield tank. But yeah vulnerable to neuts as i found...