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Mining as a career

Author
Licio Caleb
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-06-10 21:17:39 UTC
I did some math and I learned that: if a miner was mine 0 sec ore to sell it for isk, mining without boosts at almost perfect skills, he would get about 30m/h.

Does this number look right?

If the number is right, why would anyone be a miner? As I see it, there are professions that yield higher isk/h and take less skill.

Does one need to be an industrialist and a trader to increase the isk/h reward of the mining profession?

Thanks.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#2 - 2015-06-10 21:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
The main problem with the isk/hour of mining, is that we don't create isk from thin air by simply doing it like ratting/missioning/exploration, we must sell it to have money.

This does mean that our income is entirely dependant on the market, if we sell less ores, the price go up, and the opposite if less miners do their job.

To make this profession more viable as a source of income, we would need a way to seriously discourage multi-boxing, or encourage solo mining (whatever where it's done). But both of these things create problems :

The first one will make a ton of people mad => ton of people = lot of money to CCP , plus a lot of players simply hate mining, and will simply refuse to do it to compensate the smaller miners pool to build what is needed for corporations/alliances

The second need a serious overhaul in mining mechanics, but CCP has for now lot of work for nullses sovereignety, plus the Rorqual would need to be adressed first. Some interesting ideas or tweaks have emerged in this forum section for years now, but nothing has been made except the mining ships rebalance.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2015-06-10 22:01:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Licio Caleb wrote:
If the number is right, why would anyone be a miner? As I see it, there are professions that yield higher isk/h and take less skill.

People that enjoy mining regardless of the ISK per hour efficiency. [I'm one of those weird people, but mining is not my primary nor even quaternary income source.]

People that are AFK, as mining requires little interaction, especially in nulsec.


Trivia: Primary, secondary, tertiary, quaternary, quinary, senary, septenary, octonary, nonary, denary, (11th), duodenary.
Lurch Aldent
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-06-11 10:37:26 UTC
Licio Caleb wrote:
Does this number look right?


No your number is incorrect.

Also did some calculations recently based on current mineral price (ore prices too variable) and factoring in reprocessing of 82% (fully upgraded nul station) using a max hulk to compare with ratting.

Per 'tick' = 20mins, you would be making the following mining only the followig ore.

With max rorq bonuses
Bistot - 34m
Ark - 31m
Crock - 26m
Hed - 22m.....

With max orca bonuses
Bistot - 30m
Ark - 27m
Crock - 22m
Hed - 19m.....

This is of course ignoring the +5 & +10 ore available in null.

So if you were only to mine the top ores you would average over 90m per hour which beats any belt ratting figures I have been told and most anom ratting figures.

Also have the bonus to build and make even more profit and mining is a nice relaxing past time after some full on PvP or a hard day at work imo.
Arckaon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-06-11 11:11:29 UTC

with mackinaw, 84 s T2 crystal + rorqual bonus

Arkonor / bistot is around 70 M / hours

around 1800 Mcube *2 /84 s *3600 = 154 k mcube >>>> 150 k mcube with some travel

eve cerlestes ore say arkonor : 555 isk/mcube ( 100 % repro )

so you have 83.2 M isk

with 82.4 % repro : 83.2*0.824 = 68.5 M

so for me it's more than 1800 Mcube you can reach more than 1900 with implant

Lurch Aldent
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-06-11 11:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lurch Aldent
At this point worth noting how the different exhumers compare to each other.

Ship Fit Efficency
Hulk Strip Miner II and Mining Drones II 100%
Hulk Strip Miner II and Mining Drones I 96%
Hulk Strip Miner II 91%
Mackinaw Strip Miner II and Mining Drones II 88%
Hulk Strip Miner I and Mining Drones II 87%
Mackinaw Strip Miner II and Mining Drones I 84%
Hulk Strip Miner I and Mining Drones I 83%
Skiff Strip Miner II and Mining Drones II 81%
Mackinaw Strip Miner II 79%
Skiff Strip Miner II and Mining Drones I 78%
Mackinaw Strip Miner I and Mining Drones II 77%
Hulk Strip Miner I 78%
Mackinaw Strip Miner I and Mining Drones I 73%
Skiff Strip Miner I and Mining Drones II 71%
Skiff Strip Miner II 72%
Skiff Strip Miner I and Mining Drones I 67%
Mackinaw Strip Miner I 67%
Skiff Strip Miner I 62%

This is with max rorq bonuses
Licio Caleb
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-06-11 11:56:45 UTC
Thanks for the info guys.

I did not factor in the gang bonuses and the fully upgraded 0 sec stations. It appears they have a huge impact.

I can do about 50m isk/h in low sec, solo. It can get boring and I am constantly looking for new things to do. Unfortunately, I always run into the lower isk/h return and that often prevents me from trying other things.

I assumed that the potential isk return from industry played a larger role in the appeal of the mining profession. Perhaps it does and I just cant see it. Perhaps the mining/industry appeal has more to do with how "relaxing" it is.

To me any sort of industry seems like a shot in the dark, as there is no guarantee that you will be able to sell your goods, at any reasonable volume, at a lower price than the next guy.

Perhaps I can get a few comments on these 2 points.

Thanks again.
Lurch Aldent
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-06-11 13:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lurch Aldent
I am new to this so corrections are welcome.

I think the main correction that needs to be made is ‘potential’. These are figures based on mineral which any self-sustaining alliance would require and the profits on the manufacture are extra. Also found that players pay a lot more in null to get items due to the jump drive changes recently and are happy to pay 10-20%, if not more, to get the item there and then. This can range from fighters, siege/triage modules, cap guns, meta propulsion, ammo, cap boosters just off the top of my head all the way up to freighters, carriers, orcas and rorqual which can all be made in station. Built my first orca from minerals I mined with help from a corpy, thanks Blood, and ready in a week or so to build another by myself when have the skills. In a rorqual in 40ish days and that will be next, all by my hand at cost. Helps that a corp took out a hauler with capital bpo’s on a recent camp will be asking Dirk for some help 

When deciding to build something I will always look at the Jita price so can guarantee sale and anything I get above that happy days.

‘Relaxing’ is a good point though but mining is not my only career, I enjoy PvP too, not counting that mining is just as PvP and can be vicious and takes attention and strategy to stay safe. I also imagine that when I have finished training on my rorqual pilot that he will then train towards a carrier or dreadnought as will already have the core jump skills, need to check how much more training required but it is a start and a fully trained industrial toons need to train something after maxing out.

TLDR Profit everywhere, find yourself a good corp (not necessarily in null and don’t get bogged down with just mining, have to enjoy your earning in eve too or it will be just boring imo, no point in being buried with a full wallet…..
Zifrian
Aideron Robotics
#9 - 2015-06-11 13:21:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Use the application in my signature to calculate mining isk per hour based on your skills and setup.

90% of the time in null you'll mine with boosts.

Why people mine has a lot of different reasons. Some do it to build things locally (capitals), some like it because it is less interaction and you can control your time better. Others like the ease of adding multiple miners because it's easier to do for the same return on time. It's an ISK making activity and its not the best, but there are other intangible benefits.

As far as your comment on industry, that's just how the game is played and part of why it is interesting. Take away the market meta and eve would suck as a game for many people, myself included.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder

Lurch Aldent
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-06-11 14:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lurch Aldent
Going to get shot most probably for this but here is the strategy. Whilst mining this is what i have learned or just thought of while writting this, so some of it maybe rubbish but this list is by no means exhaustive, not going to give away the good ones lol

Null
No mining on belt entry
Consider mining in belt even if you have an anomaly
Putting a corp alt in system 20k off the gate uncloaked in a tanked rifter
Stockpiling ore in cans just off-grid of belt so will not get popped by neuts and might use an orca or rorqual to pickup
Higgs rigs to reduce your speed so you can align but can continue mining at the first sign of danger, reports from next door.
Stay away from the asteroids, +7k suitably not to get hung up
ECM drone pre-deployed if not using mining drone
Have a T1 mining barge sit at warpin to a belt and your exhumers on the other side
Tank for a good spawn when it comes around, even if you have to kill a couple of cruisers
Avoid killing rats at all if in a system by yourself
Warp to POS or safe, never to station when a neut enters system
If tackled, avoid losing your pod to a bubbler if on scan by ejecting and warping off if pick up on dscan
Use scanner to avoid rubbish cycles
Add neut to contact list and what he saw you doing
Clear and concise intel if you are tackled, not just ‘help’ in local
Join open standing fleet
Organise fleet so you can fleet warp out
Especially with higg rig and orca have ‘@0’ warpin to station, set as desto and click autopilot
Research neut in local using eve kill or similar
Consider using a mobile tractor unit to pick up cans, even if in a hauler
Don’t forgot that a fleet of skiffs have massive tank and can put out 120dps+ each, depending on neut, don’t be the herd of stampeding gazelle, can always fit that scram, but depends on where you are
Cloaked falcon off belt and maybe an arazu
Different TZ’s may bring info together about the actions of neut so you can look up when you log on
Learn about different ships and their capabilities, will assist you fighting career
Utilise fleet bonuses to increase you agility, on a orca could replace the cap efficieny bonus maybe.
Stay calm, relax and enjoy…..for 95% of the time 

Note any offensive actions may not be appreciated by your few miners/ratters as this gives the neut what he wants and may wish to escalate laters.

High sec
Use an out of corp alt to haul and call concord to sit with you in belt, if they disappear, they have been called elsewhere and a gank maybe incoming
Never be the weakest tanked ship on grid
ECM drones predeployed
Never fly a hulk

Never mined in lowsec myself, would not see this as a very relaxing adventure.
Lurch Aldent
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-06-11 14:43:01 UTC
There goes my debut post on themittani/evenews/reddit lol had it all drafted.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
Villore Accords
#12 - 2015-06-11 15:22:05 UTC
I'm a gimp. Even mining in lowsec with max Rorq boosts my 4 miners still only pull about 20-25 mil isk per toon per hour. Then again, I strip entire belts so I'm not very efficient, nor do I run with mining implants.

I'm still trying to figure out a way to up my isk/hr/toon without having to swap crystals all the time or run in skiffs/hulks.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-06-11 15:22:22 UTC
Licio Caleb wrote:
I assumed that the potential isk return from industry played a larger role in the appeal of the mining profession.


No. Serious industrialists buy their ore/minerals.
In one day of semi-serious manufacturing I can use a quantity of minerals that would take a week or more for me to mine.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#14 - 2015-06-11 19:15:07 UTC
such low number, yet its the miners that get all of the hate

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Licio Caleb
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-06-11 21:21:49 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:

No. Serious industrialists buy their ore/minerals.
In one day of semi-serious manufacturing I can use a quantity of minerals that would take a week or more for me to mine.


If I ever were to try any type of serious industry that's how I would go about it. But I guess if you enjoy mining or has all the pieces to make it worth yout while, might as well use the minerals you mine.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#16 - 2015-06-14 01:39:23 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
The main problem with the isk/hour of mining, is that we don't create isk from thin air by simply doing it like ratting/missioning/exploration, we must sell it to have money.

This does mean that our income is entirely dependant on the market, if we sell less ores, the price go up, and the opposite if less miners do their job.

To make this profession more viable as a source of income, we would need a way to seriously discourage multi-boxing, or encourage solo mining (whatever where it's done). But both of these things create problems :

The first one will make a ton of people mad => ton of people = lot of money to CCP , plus a lot of players simply hate mining, and will simply refuse to do it to compensate the smaller miners pool to build what is needed for corporations/alliances

The second need a serious overhaul in mining mechanics, but CCP has for now lot of work for nullses sovereignety, plus the Rorqual would need to be adressed first. Some interesting ideas or tweaks have emerged in this forum section for years now, but nothing has been made except the mining ships rebalance.


I'd say making the activity take less time would be a good start. That would mean increasing the impact of skills on how fast miner's and strip miners work or increasing how much they pull per cycle.

Multiboxing is ok. That isn't something that needs to be discouraged. ISBoxer is now banned and they've been cracking down on bots regularly. So much of that is handled.

More varieties of ores would be good as well. Right now we have The base type and a 5 & 10% meta ore. There should be an ultra-rare 50% yield rock for the ninja miners out there as part of the fun of exploration...finding that diamond in the rough. Maybe its in a probable ore site. (sleeper or drifter guarded and NPC's don't respawn)

Anyhow thats my take.
Shegox Gabriel
Liga Freier Terraner
Northern Coalition.
#17 - 2015-06-15 14:52:22 UTC
As a solo Miner you can easily do about 50mio/h (with boost) (inc. 25% Tax) So you can max out with boost to up to 60/65 mio ISK/h. Without boost about 30 should be good. As said before Mining as a carrer is only good if you multibox and/or have tons of time (30h+ per month). Because you need about 20h for a Plex and if you run other tons (Booster/Tank/Hauler) by yourself you also need to plex them. But also if you want to go hardcore with Mining you can do over 1 B in a hour.
Bendello Dossa
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-06-19 23:43:00 UTC
Licio Caleb wrote:
I did some math and I learned that: if a miner was mine 0 sec ore to sell it for isk, mining without boosts at almost perfect skills, he would get about 30m/h.

Does this number look right?

If the number is right, why would anyone be a miner? As I see it, there are professions that yield higher isk/h and take less skill.

Does one need to be an industrialist and a trader to increase the isk/h reward of the mining profession?

Thanks.

Its not always about the Isk man. Sometimes people just enjoy the heart pumping exciting gameplay that is mining.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#19 - 2015-06-21 12:50:06 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
You know, when the game revolves around ISK per hour income, then it is not a game anymore, but rather a job. Smile

Perhaps someone finds certain activities, you know, fun! Smile

Elena Thiesant wrote:
Licio Caleb wrote:
I assumed that the potential isk return from industry played a larger role in the appeal of the mining profession.


No. Serious industrialists buy their ore/minerals.
In one day of semi-serious manufacturing I can use a quantity of minerals that would take a week or more for me to mine.


Division of labour. Smile
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-07-16 15:12:25 UTC
While mining provides low isk/hr, it does provide a very good isk/effort ratio.

You might make 20m per hr in high sec, but within that hour, you may only spend 5 minutes clicking on stuff.

So really, you're earning 20m isk / 5 minutes of effort, which equals 240m isk / hour of effort. That definitely beats most activites.
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