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why do players stay in npc corps?

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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1581 - 2015-06-10 12:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein defending someone's honest character is like Bernie Madoff endorsing an investment product.

He's not being honest. He's being obtuse. We've already gone over two of those quotes. They don't say what he says they say.
If he wanted to be honest, he would have left that post unedited. It originally contained a statement by him essentially saying that his own words were "typical bullshit". I happened to agree with him on that point.

You're both liars.

On no. I edited a post.

Quotes aren't lies. They're just quotes.

What did I say those quotes say, other than what they say?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1582 - 2015-06-10 12:39:30 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


Quote:
You're both liars.
Yes, I'm a liar for presenting evidence that those quotes are correctly attributed to their authors and that they exist; and he's a liar for presenting those quotes in the first place Roll


Yes yall are liars, if Liar means "someone who presented evidence that drastically contradicts someones already (and usually foolishly) established world view, which tends to generate this niffy reaction.".
LifeisagameCH Thellere
#1583 - 2015-06-10 13:04:33 UTC
Wow take my quite some Time to Read (most of) all of That Shocked

Most of my Points are here Explained well more then enoth,
but one thing that Personaly holds me in NPC i dont Read:

- I Like to Help Noobs Big smile

Times where the new Player peaks was high, we had a lot of Questions to answer - with the Opportuneties and kick out of the AURA Tutrial there is defently more Work now too Roll
Dont know why but i always enjoyed helping others, maybe it came from my Job as a GM in another Game Big smile
Defently never will meet that lot Noobs in a Player Corp Cool

o7
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1584 - 2015-06-10 13:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mayhaw Morgan
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
the first 3 statements being true means that the 4th is a falsehood.

That sounds like a fun game. Let me know who wins.

Scipio Artellius wrote:
Quotes aren't lies. They're just quotes.

Words aren't lies. Letters aren't lies. Numbers aren't lies. Ideas aren't lies. People aren't lies. Pixels on a screen aren't lies. Modulated sound waves aren't lies. Works of fiction aren't lies. Knives, spoons, and forks aren't lies. Acts of God aren't lies. Colors aren't lies . . . where are we going with this?

Jen aSide wrote:
Yes yall are liars, if Liar means "someone who presented evidence


evidence

"Evidence, broadly construed, is anything presented in support of an assertion."

What are those quotes evidence of? What is the assertion they are presented to support?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1585 - 2015-06-10 15:28:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Lucas Kell wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
There are a lot more examples. There's nothing inherently wrong with NPC Corps. For some players they are perfect. But there is no comparison between the social environment created by the players in a player Corp and the near non-existent social environment in almost all of the NPC Corps.
I don't disagree with this, but the answer doesn't lie in kicking NPC corp players in the nuts. Players need to want to move out, not to be forced out.

I don't particularly think it lies in kicking NPC Corp players in the nuts either. Players should kick each other in the nuts. Not mechanics.

To me, the fact that all players start the game in NPC starter corps suggests that the best place to try to make things more social to begin with is in those 12 starter Corps (not the other NPC Corps. Players should very much take ownership of the lack of socialising in those Corps).

The structures really aren't there in the starter corps to help support social play in the same way that they are for the player Corps and it isn't clear to me why.

For example, see this image:

http://puu.sh/ijBwX/f722b29d8e.png

The left had side is the Corp chat of a starter Corp for an alt I rolled today. The right hand side is the Corp chat of one of my other characters.

The starter Corp has no indication of the number of Corp members online and doesn't even show anyone in the window until they type something. In a player Corp, all logged in members are visible to each other by default and the number of members is visible even from the channel tab at the top. I can see all the logged in members faces and names by default.

A new player gets the new player channel, but no indication outside that, that they belong to a large social group. No indication that there are other Corp members there to help them if they need.

I don't know why the starter Corp chat channel is setup so antisocially. It seems to me that if social interaction helps retention, then why not make the starter corp chat channel more like the player corp chat channel?

That's the sort of thing that is not about kicking anyone in the nuts, but about helping new players to actually discover that there is a Corporation they are a member of from the very second they start the game.

From there, it's really down to the players in the Corp to take action. As an experiment, I left that character logged in. An hour later, the chat channel was still blank. No posts. So I posted a quick hello and suddenly saw that there were 158 Corp members online (but still not who) and a few people posted back. Then that was it. It went quiet again.

I'd love to see if there would be any difference if the starter Corp chat channel showed everyone online and had an MOTD that veterans could volunteer to administer (like veteran players can volunteer for access to the new player channel).

To me, that would seem to be one way that veteran players still in the starter Corp could actually help foster a more social experience, right in the NPC corporation.
Nevil Oscillator
#1586 - 2015-06-10 16:13:42 UTC
Does it matter what CCP Rise said ?
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1587 - 2015-06-10 16:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Stan
Scipio Artelius wrote:
For example, see this image:

http://puu.sh/ijBwX/f722b29d8e.png

The left had side is the Corp chat of a starter Corp for an alt I rolled today. The right hand side is the Corp chat of one of my other characters.

The starter Corp has no indication of the number of Corp members online and doesn't even show anyone in the window until they type something. In a player Corp, all logged in members are visible to each other by default and the number of members is visible even from the channel tab at the top. I can see all the logged in members faces and names by default.

A new player gets the new player channel, but no indication outside that, that they belong to a large social group. No indication that there are other Corp members there to help them if they need.

I don't know why the starter Corp chat channel is setup so antisocially. It seems to me that if social interaction helps retention, then why not make the starter corp chat channel more like the player corp chat channel?


That's really odd, and possibly a bug - whenever I log on, I see the online member count for CAS corp chat. It ranges from 200 to 800 online members depending on the time of day. If it's not a bug - I guess it's possible that the starter corp you joined had, for real, no online members? To test, I'd suggest biomassing this particular new character of yours, and create a new one in CAS.

And yes, starter corp's corp chat is configured for the delay membership display option, or whatever it's called. I just logged on and saw 444 CAS members online, although only those sending chats were showing up in the member list.

(Edit - I logged off then back on and it took a while this time - a couple minutes - for the online member count to display, but it eventually did. 420 online now. I guess the online count doesn't update until somebody, anybody, posts something. CAS corp chat is so active that it's rarely a long wait for that to happen.)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1588 - 2015-06-10 16:54:14 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
There are a lot more examples. There's nothing inherently wrong with NPC Corps. For some players they are perfect. But there is no comparison between the social environment created by the players in a player Corp and the near non-existent social environment in almost all of the NPC Corps.
I don't disagree with this, but the answer doesn't lie in kicking NPC corp players in the nuts. Players need to want to move out, not to be forced out.
I don't particularly think it lies in kicking NPC Corp players in the nuts either. Players should kick each other in the nuts. Not mechanics.

To me, the fact that all players start the game in NPC starter corps suggests that the best place to try to make things more social to begin with is in those 12 starter Corps (not the other NPC Corps. Players should very much take ownership of the lack of socialising in those Corps).

The structures really aren't there in the starter corps to help support social play in the same way that they are for the player Corps and it isn't clear to me why.

For example, see this image:

http://puu.sh/ijBwX/f722b29d8e.png

The left had side is the Corp chat of a starter Corp for an alt I rolled today. The right hand side is the Corp chat of one of my other characters.

The starter Corp has no indication of the number of Corp members online and doesn't even show anyone in the window until they type something. In a player Corp, all logged in members are visible to each other by default and the number of members is visible even from the channel tab at the top. I can see all the logged in members faces and names by default.

A new player gets the new player channel, but no indication outside that, that they belong to a large social group. No indication that there are other Corp members there to help them if they need.

I don't know why the starter Corp chat channel is setup so antisocially. It seems to me that if social interaction helps retention, then why not make the starter corp chat channel more like the player corp chat channel?

That's the sort of thing that is not about kicking anyone in the nuts, but about helping new players to actually discover that there is a Corporation they are a member of from the very second they start the game.

From there, it's really down to the players in the Corp to take action. As an experiment, I left that character logged in. An hour later, the chat channel was still blank. No posts. So I posted a quick hello and suddenly saw that there were 158 Corp members online (but still not who) and a few people posted back. Then that was it. It went quiet again.

I'd love to see if there would be any difference if the starter Corp chat channel showed everyone online and had an MOTD that veterans could volunteer to administer (like veteran players can volunteer for access to the new player channel).

To me, that would seem to be one way that veteran players still in the starter Corp could actually help foster a more social experience, right in the NPC corporation.
Fully agree with the vast majority of that. The only bit I'd differ on is that changes are needed in some circumstances, such as the implementation of better social tools, though I suppose you agree to some changes as NPC corp chat would need to be changed. I'd love to see people's behaviour driving the social changes needed, but that isn't going to happen without a push.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1589 - 2015-06-10 18:15:13 UTC
The last post inspired me to an idea, what if in starter corps you get notifications about opportunity completions of other corp members (maybe aggregated to reduce spamming and limited to starter systems)? Get to know about things your fellow newbies are doing ...to break isolation from first second in game.

I'm my own NPC alt.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#1590 - 2015-06-10 18:37:55 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:


At the end of the day some will not like that you choose to stay in an NPC corp. But it's your subscription, your play style. Don't worry about it. As long as you're playing by the rules you're good to go... Or in this case, good to stay.


it's so true and i can't understand why this thread is still going. people play as they want, they pay,, they want fun,, when the funs not there they leave, sometimes a corp, sometimes the game. i've said it a few times in this silly thread now.


why do players stay in NPC corps?

because they can.
Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services
CAStabouts
#1591 - 2015-06-10 20:34:22 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
There are a lot more examples. There's nothing inherently wrong with NPC Corps. For some players they are perfect. But there is no comparison between the social environment created by the players in a player Corp and the near non-existent social environment in almost all of the NPC Corps.
I don't disagree with this, but the answer doesn't lie in kicking NPC corp players in the nuts. Players need to want to move out, not to be forced out.

I don't particularly think it lies in kicking NPC Corp players in the nuts either. Players should kick each other in the nuts. Not mechanics.

To me, the fact that all players start the game in NPC starter corps suggests that the best place to try to make things more social to begin with is in those 12 starter Corps (not the other NPC Corps. Players should very much take ownership of the lack of socialising in those Corps).

The structures really aren't there in the starter corps to help support social play in the same way that they are for the player Corps and it isn't clear to me why.

For example, see this image:

http://puu.sh/ijBwX/f722b29d8e.png

The left had side is the Corp chat of a starter Corp for an alt I rolled today. The right hand side is the Corp chat of one of my other characters.

The starter Corp has no indication of the number of Corp members online and doesn't even show anyone in the window until they type something. In a player Corp, all logged in members are visible to each other by default and the number of members is visible even from the channel tab at the top. I can see all the logged in members faces and names by default.

A new player gets the new player channel, but no indication outside that, that they belong to a large social group. No indication that there are other Corp members there to help them if they need.

I don't know why the starter Corp chat channel is setup so antisocially. It seems to me that if social interaction helps retention, then why not make the starter corp chat channel more like the player corp chat channel?

That's the sort of thing that is not about kicking anyone in the nuts, but about helping new players to actually discover that there is a Corporation they are a member of from the very second they start the game.

From there, it's really down to the players in the Corp to take action. As an experiment, I left that character logged in. An hour later, the chat channel was still blank. No posts. So I posted a quick hello and suddenly saw that there were 158 Corp members online (but still not who) and a few people posted back. Then that was it. It went quiet again.

I'd love to see if there would be any difference if the starter Corp chat channel showed everyone online and had an MOTD that veterans could volunteer to administer (like veteran players can volunteer for access to the new player channel).

To me, that would seem to be one way that veteran players still in the starter Corp could actually help foster a more social experience, right in the NPC corporation.


Try typing something next time, pop comes right up.

The reason your PC count comes right up is becuase of the MOTD. It's considered to be a post. If you took down the MOTD, you wouldnt get a member count until you or someone posted in PC chat either. So...nothing special going on here.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1592 - 2015-06-10 21:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
Try typing something next time, pop comes right up.

The reason your PC count comes right up is becuase of the MOTD. It's considered to be a post. If you took down the MOTD, you wouldnt get a member count until you or someone posted in PC chat either. So...nothing special going on here.

Yes the count (not full list of online members though) will come right up if I type (I did type, it's in the post but it's a long post so easy to miss).

Is that a behaviour you would expect a new player to know? And why delayed corp chat in NPC Corps anyway?

It's less social right from the start. That's not the only difference between NPC Corp vs Player Corp as far as the available mechanics assisting/discouraging social interaction. I'll drop them all into F&I rather than GD.
Ursula Thrace
Dreamland Augmented Consortium
#1593 - 2015-06-11 00:00:15 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
I believe people stay in npc corps (and therefor quit more often) to evade wars.


this...and just laziness.

eve online original intro
Vex Aubaris
Doomheim
#1594 - 2015-06-11 08:55:28 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
The last post inspired me to an idea, what if in starter corps you get notifications about opportunity completions of other corp members (maybe aggregated to reduce spamming and limited to starter systems)? Get to know about things your fellow newbies are doing ...to break isolation from first second in game.


Christ no. Can you imagine it? That was one of the worst things about being in a guild in WoW.

Noscopez 4lyfe has looked at his ship!
"gz"
"grats dude"
lowercase First Initial has locked a target!
"gz"
"gz!"
Eve Injoke McPrimary has orbited an asteroid!
"grats m8"
"Guys im new, how do i into space?"
"wd"
Cyberminx69 has docked at a station!
"gz"
"grats!"
"gz"

Ugh
Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services
CAStabouts
#1595 - 2015-06-11 09:16:04 UTC
Vex Aubaris wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
The last post inspired me to an idea, what if in starter corps you get notifications about opportunity completions of other corp members (maybe aggregated to reduce spamming and limited to starter systems)? Get to know about things your fellow newbies are doing ...to break isolation from first second in game.


Christ no. Can you imagine it? That was one of the worst things about being in a guild in WoW.

Noscopez 4lyfe has looked at his ship!
"gz"
"grats dude"
lowercase First Initial has locked a target!
"gz"
"gz!"
Eve Injoke McPrimary has orbited an asteroid!
"grats m8"
"Guys im new, how do i into space?"
"wd"
Cyberminx69 has docked at a station!
"gz"
"grats!"
"gz"

Ugh


Wurm much?
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1596 - 2015-06-11 09:25:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mayhaw Morgan
Vex Aubaris wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
The last post inspired me to an idea, what if in starter corps you get notifications about opportunity completions of other corp members (maybe aggregated to reduce spamming and limited to starter systems)? Get to know about things your fellow newbies are doing ...to break isolation from first second in game.


Christ no. Can you imagine it? That was one of the worst things about being in a guild in WoW.

Noscopez 4lyfe has looked at his ship!
"gz"
"grats dude"
lowercase First Initial has locked a target!
"gz"
"gz!"
Eve Injoke McPrimary has orbited an asteroid!
"grats m8"
"Guys im new, how do i into space?"
"wd"
Cyberminx69 has docked at a station!
"gz"
"grats!"
"gz"

Ugh


Mayhaw Morgan has disabled Corporation Member Achievements notifications
"ahhh, much better"
"you can do that?"
"моя сестра дорого"
"Mayhew how do I shut those off?"
"Is bestiality legal in Canada?"

. . . or something like that.
You can already see corp members kill and lossmails. It's quite a useful feature, honestly, both in explaining to noobs what can/did happen to them and just as fodder for conversation.
Nevil Oscillator
#1597 - 2015-06-11 10:10:11 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:


You can already see corp members kill and lossmails. It's quite a useful feature, honestly, both in explaining to noobs what can/did happen to them and just as fodder for conversation.


I already know what I didn't do ..



Get out alive
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1598 - 2015-06-11 11:44:18 UTC
Quote:

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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

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Interstellar Services Department