Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ishtar still nr 1.

The drones themselves aren't the problem with the Ishtar. The real brokenness with the Ishtar comes from two things:

1. The control range bonus.
2. Their T2 resists are perfectly lined up with the only weapons (railguns) that are both useable and can actually hit them.

If the Ishtar didn't have the control range bonus, you could just shoot them with medium beam lasers from 110km away and they'd be completely ******. However, having 135km control range with two DLAs means they can reach a range that medium lasers cannot, which removes lasers as a viable counter.

What about battleships? Well, railguns are kin/therm, so that's out. Lasers would be absolutely amazing.....but Tachyons require so much fitting that they're simply not viable. (three fitting mods or two fitting mods + faction hardeners to get Tachyon IIs on an Apoc) Artillery also has insufficient range with regular ammo, Proton L has an optimal range of 96km, and Ishtars can easily shoot from way outside that. Tremor has tracking so bad that you can't hit Ishtars with it even if they're 120km away.

The only real counter to Ishtars is to use Navy Apocs, which work extremely well. The extra fitting on the ship lets you use Tachyons effectively and they tear Ishtars to pieces. Still, the fact that you have to use a navy BS as the counter demonstrates that there's a problem.

Light, Medium & Heavy Sentries is an option worth considering.

...especially if Light sentries were limited to ships up to Cruiser size, Medium for BC & BS, and Heavy for larger ships.


or:


Drone ships had a Sentry mode high slot module - similar to the Bastion module, but for drones, of course.

...possible to change during fights, but with lock and cool down.


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The tracking and optimal nerf on Gardes seem arbitrary and does not quell outrage towards Ishtar, it only creates more anger among those who use other drone platforms. These sentries are darn near useless except if you pile on tracking and range modules...



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Also - post 666!!! :D

Bullshit.

Check the base stats for sentries and then the base attributes for medium Artilleries, Beams & Railguns and then come back to tell us the drones are not the problem.

The other two "issues" are derivative and are actually working as intended.

The 'preview post' button is offered below, it is supplied for you to use at any time whilst writing a post, please consider using it to peruse your rant prior to making a fool of yourself by posting it.

Ishtars have had "Battleship-class weapons" for ten years. That only became an argument two years ago.

This ignores the fact that other HACs get double damage bonuses to their weapons, while the Ishtar only gets one for sentries.

Ishtar with Gardes with 3 damage mod, 2 range mod: 36.5km optimal, 568 DPS.
Zealot with Heavy Beams with 3 damage mod, 2 range mod, faction Gamma: 574 DPS, 37km optimal. Over triple the effective tracking.

Ishtar with Bouncers and same fitting: 499 DPS, 73km optimal.
Zealot with faction Infrared and same fitting: 417 DPS, 70km optimal.

Close up, lasers have much better stats. Further away, sentries do, but it's not a gigantic gulf.

The issue is that the Zealot can't shoot past 115km at all no matter how you fit it, and neither can any other medium laser ship. The Ishtar can, so the weapon system that's supposed to counter it (EM damage against shield tank with 0% base resist and very tight CPU) doesn't actually counter it.

There's also the fact that the Ishtar can effectively fit three damage mods because it's shield tanked while the Zealot really can't because it's armor tanked, (In fact, no shield tanked medium gunship with damage + damage + range bonuses exists at all) but if my two issues are "derivative" and "working as intended," then so is the issue of shield tank vs. armor tank balance. If you armor tank the Ishtar it's got **** stats compared to even the Muninn, and that ship is hilariously bad.

Next, Navy Apocalypses absolutely massacre Ishtars. Of course, they cost three times as much, that's not really a "counter." Regular Apocalypses would massacre them too, if their fitting wasn't **** and it was actually possible to fit Tachyons on them. Again, you have the issue that the weapon system that's supposed to counter the Ishtar doesn't actually work for various reasons.

Overall, the real problem is that if the Ishtar is 130km away from you, you can't hit it at all with anything besides kin/therm weapons. Medium lasers and projectiles can not reach, large lasers don't have a non faction hull that you can actually fit them on, and large projectiles either can't reach the Ishtar (Proton L) or can't track it. (Tremor L) This fact prevents all the counters already built into the game from effectively working.

While we're on this topic, the Dominix is a actually far more serious abomination of balance than the Ishtar, but again that's not because of sentries, it's because the Dominix is a T1 ship with four bonuses. (damage, damage, range, tracking) It beats every navy BS and most pirate BS at pretty much all roles because of this, let alone other standard battleships.

Well, there is one exemption, but about the time interceptors got nullifiers people stopped using them and then claimed they always sucked. Shield muninns shall save us from this pit. Praise the raven of the mind and the alpha.

Or interceptors ruined that, one or the other on that.

Came out a year and a half before any of this mattered, and they still were using "battleship weapons" prior.

or remake ecm as anti drone shutdown gear instead of what they do now. caldari vs gallente it makes sense