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Reasons for/against WiS (Discussion)

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Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#41 - 2015-06-10 11:13:54 UTC
DrSmegma wrote:
Lena Lazair wrote:
I don't think anyone but the harshest of trolls would make any real claim that WiS couldn't be an awesome addition to EVE.

The trolls are right though. Nobody plays Eve because of the stations. People who like to walk around and customize their character won't play Eve just because of WiS. It's pointless.

I started playing the game based on the WiS future content that was discussed. It sounded pretty cool and yes lots of others games will have WiS so lets not pretend its because CCP can't do it. More the case that some vocal players dont want it. They dont like change and complain about everything anyway.

"CCP needs to fix space first", well lets be honest no one will ever be 100% happy so just let CCP do their stuff and moan later.

Everyone is too reluctant for change but how does it really effect you? Sure the money spent developing it would take away from others areas for a while but so what. Let them make their game and lets see how it turns out. I agree completely that there is major disparity between the game lore and how the game is played. I feel like I need to search high and low to find scraps of info about the lore as I havent read the chronicles. More effort needs to be made to show everyone how great it is and WiS is the way to do it.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#42 - 2015-06-10 11:22:52 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
. It sounded pretty cool and yes lots of others games will have WiS so lets not pretend its because CCP can't do it. More the case that some vocal players dont want it. They dont like change and complain about everything anyway.


No they don't. Even WoW doesn't get close to what eve would need for WiS. Star Citizen is not really even a MMO.

Getting 2000 people or more to walk around in a single station is not trivial. In fact the standard way right now to deal with that is to run shards/phases and of course you have different non interacting "realms" between sections of the station.

So happens when your 100 man corp docks? you all even up in the same station yet can't see each other....

And yet why? for what? what does it add to *eve*? If you want to sit on a space toilet with a few dozen people per server, go play star lamo...

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#43 - 2015-06-10 11:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
WiS is a logical extension - without it, Internet spaceships will wither and stagnate, as can be seen now.

I think non-Eve projects didn't pay off in the end, so here we are. DUST, however, can be truly linked to EVE via WiS.

Welcome back, CCP. Smile

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Argyle Jones
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2015-06-10 11:32:52 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:
... If anyone has any objections feel free to post them, ...
The current direction of making everything lifeless and dull, default ship skins, Neocom, et cetera.
I would rather WiS creation is postponed until the development direction changes.


I feel exactly the opposite. I'd much rather that CCP returned to their more visionary way of thinking. EVE would never have existed in the first place, if they'd been listening to all the nay-sayers and the nit-pickers, but it seems to me that that's what they've been doing ever since the first 'burn Jita' event. What we're getting now is small, incremental changes, minor improvements and the occasional overhaul of already existing features, be it industry/sov/etc.

When's the last time CCP came out with something for EVE that just blew your mind? When's the last time we saw something completely new, rather than some incremental add-on or change to old content? Don't get me wrong, there was a time when EVE was in bad repair, and needed some updates, but I feel like that time has passed, and now's the time to really push for something extraordinary. I'd love to see WiS or maybe a Valkyrie tie-in to the EVE universe, or in a perfect universe both, rather than just another "fix" or "overhaul".
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#45 - 2015-06-10 11:36:50 UTC
Why won't CCP setup a Kickstarter / gofundme for this?
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#46 - 2015-06-10 11:41:33 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
. It sounded pretty cool and yes lots of others games will have WiS so lets not pretend its because CCP can't do it. More the case that some vocal players dont want it. They dont like change and complain about everything anyway.


No they don't. Even WoW doesn't get close to what eve would need for WiS. Star Citizen is not really even a MMO.

Getting 2000 people or more to walk around in a single station is not trivial. In fact the standard way right now to deal with that is to run shards/phases and of course you have different non interacting "realms" between sections of the station.

So happens when your 100 man corp docks? you all even up in the same station yet can't see each other....

And yet why? for what? what does it add to *eve*? If you want to sit on a space toilet with a few dozen people per server, go play star lamo...

So just because you can't imagine how it would work it won't? Please, its 2015 its doable for a company like CCP. But you don't want it to work so everything is unobtainable. Its not constructive or helpful to say "go play star lamo" etc to people that came to play this game based on CCP's vision for the future. That future included WiS, bars, clubs, shops, industry and corp spaces to chill with friends etc. So don't tell me to go play something else just because you are stuck in the past. I love spaceships and I love this game which is why I play, WiS is a part of that. Right now its in dire need of some love.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2015-06-10 11:53:47 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Let them make their game and lets see how it turns out.

We did, and we have. And the fact that the fruit of that is not sufficient for even you (as someone who wants WiS), because you are here asking for more, should be a stronger indication of the problem than anything we say to you.

We have WiS. It's here, it's released, and it's utter, unforgivable crap. If CCP had the ability to satisfy your dreams, this arguement would be moot, because we would have it, sitting there in game. Instead they gave us what they were capable of, and its so far removed from the vision that you are talking as if it doesn't exist.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#48 - 2015-06-10 12:09:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Alpheias
As a core concept, WiS is still a very cool idea but the EVE community has already given enough reasons as to why WiS shouldn't be added to EVE.

But having said that, CCP should salvage what they can from WoD and reshape WiS into a single-player RPG set in the EVE universe. People who want the WiS experience gets one, people who don't want to play EVE get a experience in the EVE universe and CCP gets to have a new game on the market. Everybody wins! \o/

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#49 - 2015-06-10 12:10:27 UTC
Pro:
• It would be neat in a couple of vague, undefined, and non-general ways.

Contra:
• The cost:benefit ratio approaches infinity.

There. That covers pretty much all of it.
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#50 - 2015-06-10 12:13:04 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Let them make their game and lets see how it turns out.

We did, and we have. And the fact that the fruit of that is not sufficient for even you (as someone who wants WiS), because you are here asking for more, should be a stronger indication of the problem than anything we say to you.

We have WiS. It's here, it's released, and it's utter, unforgivable crap. If CCP had the ability to satisfy your dreams, this arguement would be moot, because we would have it, sitting there in game. Instead they gave us what they were capable of, and its so far removed from the vision that you are talking as if it doesn't exist.

Yes it doesn't exist in its current capacity but that doesn't mean it can't. What we have currently is not the grand scope and vision they had for WiS so yes I am asking for more but I pay to play this game still and I love it. Just want CCP to flesh it out a bit, not saying they should pour all their time and resources into it but at least give it a bit of loving every expansion until its up to scratch. There are many things in the game which have been worked on, improved and balanced to bring us what we have today. More time spent on WiS is only a good thing as its here and its here to stay so let's bring it up to scratch with the rest of the game.
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#51 - 2015-06-10 12:14:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pro:
• It would be neat in a couple of vague, undefined, and non-general ways.

Contra:
• The cost:benefit ratio approaches infinity.

There. That covers pretty much all of it.

Well arent you smart and clever, thanks for the input.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2015-06-10 12:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Well arent you smart and clever

Yes. Everything beyond those points is largely pointless at this point.


The point is: unless you can drastically change that little equation, nothing you say will add anything to this thoroughly mummified debate. All that's left right now is to make tired old Abbott & Costello skits out of it.
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#53 - 2015-06-10 12:17:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Well arent you smart and clever

Yes. Everything beyond those points is largely pointless at this point.

Those werent points at all, in fact you pretty much said nothing. You must be one of those people that has to post in every thread even if you have nothing to say or contribute. Great for you have a blast on the forum but if its pointless discussing this for you then simply don't.
Pops Tickle
Tickle Industries
#54 - 2015-06-10 12:21:17 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Well arent you smart and clever

Yes. Everything beyond those points is largely pointless at this point.

Those werent points at all, in fact you pretty much said nothing. You must be one of those people that has to post in every thread even if you have nothing to say or contribute. Great for you have a blast on the forum but if its pointless discussing this for you then simply don't.

They were points. You could at least try to understand them or ask. I understand that many people are against it, but being ignorant simply because it opposes your viewpoint is not what a discussion should be about. Ask and you shall receive or ignore and face opposition.

CCP Rise wrote:

"We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed."

Source
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#55 - 2015-06-10 12:23:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Those werent points at all

Yes they were — just not the points you were hoping for.

It's a 100% accurate and fully inclusive answer to the OP's question. Both his and your fundamental problem is that you're not adding anything remotely relevant or interesting that will alter the debate on WiS. Until you do, this thread falls entirely in line with those two points (hell, it did so in less than 5 posts). The remaining time will just be spent with everyone — including you — proving this one more time, with one party desperately trying to convince you of this indisputable fact and the other party desperately trying to dispute it anyway.
Scarlett Anstian
Neverstar
#56 - 2015-06-10 12:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Scarlett Anstian
Pops Tickle wrote:

They were points. You could at least try to understand them or ask. I understand that many people are against it, but being ignorant simply because it opposes your viewpoint is not what a discussion should be about. Ask and you shall receive or ignore and face opposition.

Funny that you didn't clarify then Roll
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#57 - 2015-06-10 12:24:48 UTC
*gets the popcorn*

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Pops Tickle
Tickle Industries
#58 - 2015-06-10 12:30:25 UTC
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
Pops Tickle wrote:

They were points. You could at least try to understand them or ask. I understand that many people are against it, but being ignorant simply because it opposes your viewpoint is not what a discussion should be about. Ask and you shall receive or ignore and face opposition.

Funny that you didn't clarify then Roll

You quoted the wrong person? I tried pointing out that you are not helping yourself by being ignorant of what other people say. I have no personal opinion on the matter. I can adjust my character's viewpoints accordingly. Pixie, for example, is no fan of it at all and would abuse the features to exploit players, while Luxy would love to have a more personal way to approach others. I have picked role-players from the forums as role models for them.

If you want clarification, ask the one who brought them up.

CCP Rise wrote:

"We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed."

Source
Satan's Spawn
Satan's Enterprises
#59 - 2015-06-10 12:32:40 UTC
Lena Lazair wrote:
Cyborg Girl86 wrote:
Hello everyone!

Yes I know this is probably a topic that has been beaten to death, but I've done a lot of research on it from other sources and have played a ton of different MMO's and I would just like to make the argument for Walking in Stations and how it could be of benefit to the game. If anyone has any objections feel free to post them, this is a discussion and I'm well aware other people won't share my point of view.


I don't think anyone but the harshest of trolls would make any real claim that WiS couldn't be an awesome addition to EVE.

The problem is that CCP does not have infinite budget and developer resources, so it's not really a question of how interesting WIS would be on its own merits. It's a question of priorities, and how much WiS couild add to the EVE experience for the cost vs all the other space-shippy-things CCP could be spending their time doing.

And put in context and taken out of the vacuum, it becomes evident that a huge portion of the player-base would rather see CCP focusing their limited resource pool on improving the core game that includes spaceships as I think most people feel it's a better experience/cost return.

The real missed opportunity, I think, is that while CCP apparently had money and devs to burn on WoD and Dust415, they COULD have instead burned those resources on a WiS addon/module/whatever for EVE, but didn't. I can't imagine they would have gone through the money any faster, and couldn't possibly be in a worse place for it than they are now. Too late for that now though...



they could cut the budget on re-designing the graphics in game, and add that to the WiS budget for starters. Plus the tonnes of other 're-work-that-isn't-needed' stuff to boot.

Is a massive missed opportunity. Wouldbn't change the existing game format that we love so much, at all. but it would add a massive dynamic addition game that is 'directly' related to it.
Satan's Spawn
Satan's Enterprises
#60 - 2015-06-10 12:35:17 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Scarlett Anstian wrote:
. It sounded pretty cool and yes lots of others games will have WiS so lets not pretend its because CCP can't do it. More the case that some vocal players dont want it. They dont like change and complain about everything anyway.


No they don't. Even WoW doesn't get close to what eve would need for WiS. Star Citizen is not really even a MMO.

Getting 2000 people or more to walk around in a single station is not trivial. In fact the standard way right now to deal with that is to run shards/phases and of course you have different non interacting "realms" between sections of the station.

So happens when your 100 man corp docks? you all even up in the same station yet can't see each other....

And yet why? for what? what does it add to *eve*? If you want to sit on a space toilet with a few dozen people per server, go play star lamo...


is there that much difference between 100 ships on grid with moving parts, and 100 people in a room?