EVE General Discussion

"should the game be changed for those who don't like PvP to try and keep them subscribed?"

No. PvP is the founding pillar upon which EVE Online is based. They're welcome to their playstyle as much as anyone else, but never it they want to claim that their playstyle is "I shouldn't have to defend myself".

Furthermore, as CCP has demonstrated for us with the Burner rats content, any PvE that CCP devises can be math hammered out and made trivial in far, far less time than it took a CCP employee to generate that content.

New PvE content that is not fundamentally dynamic therefore, becomes a waste of effort, as it is trivialized entirely too quickly. Heck, these new multiplayer Drifter dungeons they have devised? They had to keep them a secret until launch, or people would have min maxed their way through that one too.

As for, as you put them, "The edge case PvP players", I believe that there are more of them in the game than meets the eye. I don't think that everyone who mines or runs missions is a hopeless, iredeemable carebear. I think the NPE wrongly pushes players in that direction and ONLY in that direction, and that player conflict being so handcuffed in highsec is strongly contributing to that.

Consequently, I assign that as a large contributing factor as to why people unsub from boredom of chewing rocks. I hear time and again from miners and missioners that they "like" things the way they are, that they find such content "fun". Clearly, not all of them do, or they wouldn't be quitting in such numbers. Perhaps it's the very people who claim that they enjoy banality that are keeping this game from being improved for everyone else?

In summary, I believe that a PvE centric approach for the NPE, and highsec, is a proven failure. And I believe that CCP can't ignore that for too much longer, so the sacred cows of Concord, NPC corps and Incursions will find themselves approaching the guillotine.

Many that know, still oppose the idea.

They rage when they get shot at, they come and complain in the forum how pvp in highsec should be made harder (eg. -10s not allowed in highsec, high slot modules shouldn't work in highsec, non-consensual pvp should be removed from highsec because it's meant to be safe, etc) and they post ideas in the F&I forum designed to make themself safer while eliminating other people's play. They constantly call for nerfs to pvp and complain how pvp affects player retention without even attempting to understand whether that is true or not, just because they don't like it.

Ganking is the most boring form of PvP however. It's literally shooting fish in a barrel. It's as likely to make people quit if its the main focus of the game as making the main focus of the game pure PvE. What CCP aim for, and what is generally created, is a balance. Ganking is alright, PvE is alright. Players like Kaarous are as bad as a carebear demanding pure safety, just on the other end of the spectrum, that's all.

The problem you types fail to realise is that EVE is about a lot more that just that. Most games have something you don't like in it, that's the challenge, to avoid that. You play game with the intention of winning at whatever task it is you are aiming to accomplish and you avoid losing to the obstacles. Non-consensual PvP is simply an obstacle. There are ways to play EVE while reducing the risk of that obstacle, and there's no reason those should be removed, they are part of the game. The thing is, being in an NPC corp is just one of them. What makes me laugh is half the "hardcore" players like Kaarous are actively using another: remaining in highsec. "Grr, I hate people avoiding non-consensual PvP, yet I'm going to stay in a place that exists specifically to reduce exposure to non-consensual PvP". Makes no sense.

ganking implies that paying players actually fielded something to lose. with less players and less money, what happens when all the Fish dry up. omg CODE!

oh i know, i've had to listen to more than a few of them over the years, priceless comedy, facts remain as they are though. players will play as they see fit and as long as it's fun they'll do it. when they grow bored of it or it's no longer fun most times they'll quit.

it's best to tell the new guys, you will lose more than a few ships before you get how things are. if you survive more than a year you'll stick around. for much longer. so how do we get more assholes in seats and get them to stay. i don't think the players are doing anything wrong at all.

more push from the sales team in CCP perhaps? we need more meat for the grinder!

Can I ask what was so strange about Kaarous's definition of a Carebear on the previous page then?

It's not hard to imagine thousands of players who started the the expecting great PvE content and spent it getting shot at by vets and leaving either. Swings and roundabouts.

One thing that people tend to look at in a way that I find weird is the 2014 Fanfest new player stats. These stated that:
Of new players who sub -
50% leave in a month or so.
40% move into solo content, missioning/mining/etc
10% move into group/diverse play and those are the ones that stay (note, this does not just mean "pew pew PvP")

Now when a lot f people look at this they instantly start going on about how this means we must send noobies to get blown up, but I see it differently. What I see is that of the players who join and stick with the game (ie, the 2nd 50%), 4/5 of those players find PvE content in some way appealing, and they burn out or get bored. And it's because PvE content sucks. So rather than screaming "blow up more noobs!", expecting them to just fill out that 10%, like blowing them up is going to make them like the game more.

We should be screaming "make PvE content better and moreover better for groups". Encourage that 40% of new players into doing what they want but in a more social and interactive style. Thousands of people love mining and missioning. If PvE were more focussed on groups it would be a much bigger driver.

As it stands, in highsec there' no point in even attempting to make mining and missioning focussed groups since they instantly become targets for you lot, since you want easy kills. Remember that group content doesn't have to involve shooting anyone.

How many of those people that state nothing? Is there even an option for that in the normal set of tickboxes, or is that something you have to pick "other" and type in. Even CCP themselves seemed to avoid making any concrete conclusions from that data.

This is just funny, and it shows a fundamental lack of understanding about the market.

Incursions and L4s devalue everything else in the game, thanks to their sheer safety, ease of farming, and endless sustainability.

Meanwhile, you bitterly spit vitriol at the only people trying to do something about that, complaining that industry is "fking dead".

If more ships exploded, there would be a greater demand for industrially produced items. And if there wasn't one best, obvious choice for personal income above all else, people across disparate playstyle groups would have better purchasing power to drive sales.

It's really funny to see you scream about how you hate the way you've made your own bed.

Ha ha, what? That's damn near all you did for a solid month.




They were never at risk, barring the obvious lies and smokescreen from the bot apologists in that thread, yourself included.

That's why I think ganking should be the danger in high sec. War decs would be to take over structures or something of high value.

I think it would be too boring to not have anything to worry about while playing Eve. But to me there is a difference in veteran players who have min/maxed high sec mechanics to troll people and people that are blowing up miners or people farming L4s.