These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Carnyx] The Jackdaw

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#601 - 2015-06-05 11:18:56 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
It's almost like you don't understand that 5x sigR with 5x V is the same as shooting a ship without a MWD?

Or that you only recently joiined this conversation?


Only really true for turrets, because in missiles the second coefficient term has an exponent. x5^n/x5 is not strictly proportional change to x5/x5

In any case... I don't see why a Jackdaw losing to a Caracal is a cause for alarm.

Haven't T3Ds made enough ship classes obsolete yet? Whether Jackdaw deserves the same praise or not. It's more alarming that people go on about how they can't kite in this.
Just keep on snowballing EVE into a Dot Versus Dot simulator, right? If I may be hyperbolic, how soon can we expect small ships to project damage from one edge of the grid to another? And have enough speed to cover the distance for the last, heroic, "well deserved" 80km tackle.


Roll


I'm not saying it's a cause for alarm.
My argument is that the LML portion of the bonuses for the Jackdaw are wasted. Typically, when you're fitting LMLs, you're going to take advantage of the range. Fit a long point and kite with the superior range of your missiles. If you're going to brawl or be in overheated web range, you're probably going to take a weapon system that excels at closer ranges like Rockets.

The Jackdaw doesn't have the ability to make full use of LMLs. It's pretty slow and sports a pretty fragile tank with the tight PG. It can't kite, so why have bonuses for a weapon system that only gets used for kiting?

Just saying, if the bonuses for LMLs were removed and the Jackdaw was further bonuses into a dedicated brawling hull, I think it'd be a lot better. The only real threat comes in a FW Scenario where you land at 0 in a Plex and a Jackdaw is waiting for you or in a small gang scenario where someone already tackled it.
Arla Sarain
#602 - 2015-06-05 12:28:57 UTC
People were begging for an EWAR centric destroyer a while back.

Jackdaw has 6 mids; why not utilise it? 22km fed navy webs with links.

Start the fight at 70km and peel people away as they burn in to "negate your LML advantage", and then get Double webbed outside of their projection range because you are also stacked with a selection of damps/TDs.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#603 - 2015-06-05 13:45:58 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
It's almost like you don't understand that 5x sigR with 5x V is the same as shooting a ship without a MWD?

Or that you only recently joiined this conversation?


Only really true for turrets, because in missiles the second coefficient term has an exponent. x5^n/x5 is not strictly proportional change to x5/x5

In any case... I don't see why a Jackdaw losing to a Caracal is a cause for alarm.

Haven't T3Ds made enough ship classes obsolete yet? Whether Jackdaw deserves the same praise or not. It's more alarming that people go on about how they can't kite in this.
Just keep on snowballing EVE into a Dot Versus Dot simulator, right? If I may be hyperbolic, how soon can we expect small ships to project damage from one edge of the grid to another? And have enough speed to cover the distance for the last, heroic, "well deserved" 80km tackle.


Roll


Problem is CCP created a precedent with the first 2 T3D and people are expecting those from other races to have similar capabilities.
Arch-Magus Mephisto
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#604 - 2015-06-05 14:12:27 UTC
So what is the verdict? Is it even worth chasing down?

I see someone lost a 8 bill Jackdaw. Wonder how he feels about it.
Sloppy Podfarts
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#605 - 2015-06-05 15:09:15 UTC
Arch-Magus Mephisto wrote:
So what is the verdict? Is it even worth chasing down?

I see someone lost a 8 bill Jackdaw. Wonder how he feels about it.


Cry
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#606 - 2015-06-05 16:02:09 UTC
He feels pretty good actually.
Redbull Spai
Twenty Questions
#607 - 2015-06-05 17:21:46 UTC
Jackdaw is pretty nice, but what Eve really needs is a ship that can turn those pesky 200km orbitting frigs into ash.
Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#608 - 2015-06-05 17:27:33 UTC
Looking at the current bonus scheme, I would actually suggest adding the Caldari 5% kinetic damage. It would help level this ship out against the Svipul (which is currently crushing it on the KBs).

Otherwise it seems to be doing a reasonable job so far.

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome
Sial Harkonnen
Omni-InternOps
#609 - 2015-06-05 21:04:06 UTC
it looks like a flying "toblarone". absolute not like a caldari ship.
and this name...
maybe the designers was drunk, or smoke some srange things...
should be fired!
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#610 - 2015-06-05 21:15:21 UTC
I like the jackdaw overall. I don't know what people mean by it being slow, it's faster than every t1 destroyer in the game, and it's actually very easy to fit if you're used to fitting destroyers.

My only complaint is that it has sub-cruiser scan-res. Even in SS mode it has very average res for a destroyer, and very low for D3.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#611 - 2015-06-05 21:53:05 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
I don't know what people mean by it being slow, it's faster than every t1 destroyer in the game


It's also slower than my hurricane out of prop mode (and that 'cane has hyperspatials so it warps faster too)....so...yeaaaaaaah.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#612 - 2015-06-05 22:58:31 UTC
afkalt wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
I don't know what people mean by it being slow, it's faster than every t1 destroyer in the game
It's also slower than my hurricane out of prop mode (and that 'cane has hyperspatials so it warps faster too)....so...yeaaaaaaah.
And that's what prop mode is for. Only a duo-nano/OIS cane is faster than it out of prop mode, and with a OSI and a engine housing a jackdaw is faster than that fit overheated.

I also doubt your cane aligns faster than an interceptor (which I find bizarre).
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#613 - 2015-06-06 03:01:46 UTC
Specia1 K wrote:
Looking at the current bonus scheme, I would actually suggest adding the Caldari 5% kinetic damage. It would help level this ship out against the Svipul (which is currently crushing it on the KBs).

Otherwise it seems to be doing a reasonable job so far.


The ship also is only a week old??

Did anyone ask why

Small neut 8pg - medium neut 170pg
Small cap booster 5pg - medium cap booster 150pg
5mn mwd 17pg - 50mn mwd 175pg

1mn ab 11pg - 10mn ab 55pg? Wut? 100mn ab 650pg??
Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#614 - 2015-06-06 03:30:39 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:

1mn ab 11pg - 10mn ab 55pg? Wut? 100mn ab 650pg??



Shocked
Jeebus that 10mn is just messed. Should be like 100pg.

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#615 - 2015-06-06 04:38:36 UTC
Specia1 K wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:

1mn ab 11pg - 10mn ab 55pg? Wut? 100mn ab 650pg??



Shocked
Jeebus that 10mn is just messed. Should be like 100pg.


The same trend follows for guns, neuts, smartbombs, shield boosters, armour reppers and armour plates (assuming 400mm is frigate/destroyer, 800mm is cruiser and 1600 is battleships) also remote armour reppers and remote cap transfers.

notable module sets that buck the trend or don't follow it are remote shield reps. shield extenders (where you could argue large extenders are a cruiser module since they easily fit on most cruisers and that shield extenders lack an equivalent 1600mm extender) and cap batteries.

Missile launchers don't strictly follow the trend either but that being said most of them haven't been tiericided yet.
Sylana Sif
Missing the point
#616 - 2015-06-07 10:43:25 UTC
My suggestion about the Jackdaw is more of a graphical nature..

I fly it alot last few days, i love what you did to it, its the best small missile boat currently out there. The only problem with it is..
Where is the Bridge?
I have no feeling for the ship beeing a ship, i feel like im flying a piece of metal with launchers.. All the other caldari ships have the bridge somewhere, but Jackdaw has it nowhere to be found..
Im sure this will be dismissed easily but if possible this graphic tweak would mean alot to im sure alot of people and not just me once they notice it : )
Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#617 - 2015-06-07 10:59:45 UTC
Sylana Sif wrote:
My suggestion about the Jackdaw is more of a graphical nature..

I fly it alot last few days, i love what you did to it, its the best small missile boat currently out there. The only problem with it is..
Where is the Bridge?
I have no feeling for the ship beeing a ship, i feel like im flying a piece of metal with launchers.. All the other caldari ships have the bridge somewhere, but Jackdaw has it nowhere to be found..
Im sure this will be dismissed easily but if possible this graphic tweak would mean alot to im sure alot of people and not just me once they notice it : )


Where do you think the bridge should go?

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#618 - 2015-06-07 11:01:45 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
afkalt wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
I don't know what people mean by it being slow, it's faster than every t1 destroyer in the game
It's also slower than my hurricane out of prop mode (and that 'cane has hyperspatials so it warps faster too)....so...yeaaaaaaah.
And that's what prop mode is for. Only a duo-nano/OIS cane is faster than it out of prop mode, and with a OSI and a engine housing a jackdaw is faster than that fit overheated.

I also doubt your cane aligns faster than an interceptor (which I find bizarre).


Yup but in prop mod it's squishy and fat. Dat sig....
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#619 - 2015-06-07 12:40:38 UTC
So do we have any truly successful fits out yet?
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#620 - 2015-06-07 14:03:25 UTC
Sylana Sif wrote:
My suggestion about the Jackdaw is more of a graphical nature..

I fly it alot last few days, i love what you did to it, its the best small missile boat currently out there. The only problem with it is..
Where is the Bridge?
I have no feeling for the ship beeing a ship, i feel like im flying a piece of metal with launchers.. All the other caldari ships have the bridge somewhere, but Jackdaw has it nowhere to be found..
Im sure this will be dismissed easily but if possible this graphic tweak would mean alot to im sure alot of people and not just me once they notice it : )


You could also say the jackdaw as a T3 reverse engineered from future tech, it doesn't have a need for a bridge besides a suitable pod-cage made of rolled tungsten it seems. What's the point of having a bridge on the outside anyways, we got cameras now!