EVE General Discussion

You guys do know that Lucas doesn't argue because he cares, right?
He argues because he enjoys arguing.

Oh man I guess it's time someone explained people to you

You're probably going to want to sit down for this, because it's pretty disappointing stuff.

Sibyyl said so

You are wrong. They only said that there is some correlation between losing ships and staying in the game. Some weak minds (you seen them here) immediately decided that unless someone loses his ship he WILL leave the game. Statistics is hard....

This is one issue that has been discussed a lot lately and it isn't his assertion, it's CCPs. It comes directly from the New Player FAQ.

Section 7, page 22:
The essential core concept of EVE Online is that it is full time PvP in a sandbox
environment.

That doesn't only mean simple combat, but it's not the assertion of anyone other than CCP that the game is a fulltime pvp environment as its essential core concept.


This one also, has been directly countered by CCP Rise as they've actively tried to establish a link along the lines being expressed here.



That obviously relates only to new players and not all players, so the data presented at FanFest this year added more to it, and the results are not what most people think:

http://puu.sh/if7QP/b08dde7761.jpg

It's also been stated by CCP that isolating people away from the sandbox is contrary to what they would like to accomplish and that they know this is what happens to a large number of players that leave the game.

Multiple have been listed in this very thread! Not least of which there's the orca fleet hangar changes which prevented them from having an unscannable no-drop bay and the war changes which meant that corps can dec hundreds of corps at a time. Feyd has posted his list multiple times over the last few months and people have repeatedly posted lists of buffs to pvpers and nerfs to safety. It's not my fault if he, his ilk and now supposedly you choose to filter out hundreds of posts.

As for the anecdotes, they are still valid. Beyond mechanical changes, there are behavioural changes which have to be included. As games progress people refine how they play and find better ways to do things which alter the balance of existing mechanics. That's why things like drone assist mechanics which were fine for a very long time were changed, because people found more effective ways to use them to attack other players. In the same way, as time has progressed, more effective ways have been found to use less assets and effort to attack players in highsec, so even if no mechanics were changed, there level of safety has gradually decreased as the effectiveness of the techniques has increased. Of course that does work both ways, it's just tended towards favouring aggressors.

All of that aside, high sec is supposed to be safer than any other area of space. How people can actively refuse to leave highsec yet whine about safety is beyond me. It's like going to a swimming pool and complaining that it's wet.

This is not the case Lucas as far as I can remember.

I don't play in highsec and for the most part I try to keep an open mind in these discussions and base my views as much on verifiable data/facts as much as possible. So I've often looked out for counter lists and I may have missed them, but I can't recall seeing them (and I'm not filtering them out, I just haven't seen them).

Well look again, they've been there. I just listed 2 in the rest of the post you quoted this from. Did you notice those?

It states the most common, which I would agree with. Across the whole game, the most common form of PvP is combat, but that certainly doesn't mean that every aspect of the game is open to that form of PvP which is the argument going on here.

Players like Kaarous want NPC corps gone (or players in them punished to such a degree they have to leave them) and people forced to pew pew when others want them to regardless of whether or not they want to. The game simply isn't designed that way. There are multiple ways to avoid all (like staying docked and trading) or most (like being in an NPC corp in high sec) forms of pew pew PvP, and those are designed to give people a playstyle choice. Removing that choice doesn't improve the game, and quite honestly, I don't think the players suggesting it really think it will. What they want is more and easier targets to shoot. When they get on their high horse and claim it's the "carebears" being selfish, it truly is laughable.

Yes I noticed those.

That's different to "people have repeatedly posted lists of buffs to pvpers and nerfs to safety".

I have looked. It just isn't the case as far as I have seen. I may be totally blind, but if it has been so repeatedly posted, any chance you can link me to a list of buffs that's been posted?

Still with the strawman. I guess you don't have anything left, given that your narrative is in shreds by now.

Do you carebears ever get any new lines, or have they not updated your playbook lately? CCP has invalidated that bullshit by now. Turns out, even if newbies just get blapped by the likes of me, or Marmite, or Forsaken, or whomever...

They are STILL more likely to resub than people who chew on rocks all day.

So even if you stick out your lower lip and pout about the "girefers" being allowed to shoot at more people, it's still better for the game in the long run than what you parasites want.