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why do players stay in npc corps?

First post
Author
Nevil Oscillator
#1321 - 2015-06-06 07:52:22 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:


I'd personally almost recommend that all highsec Corps take a trip to nullsec and learn how to survive there.


Dunno, I would say it depends on the corp, some corps are never going to be wardeced.. ever..
OK In Null you have no gate guns and station guns but if you are a high sec corp you might not even know what they do anyway.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1322 - 2015-06-06 08:03:02 UTC
Elaniera wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
If there aren't enough for you to get your jollies, too bad.

How do I get my jollies?

That's a good question. Please share. You sound like you aren't getting enough and it has something to do with NPC corps. Big smile
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1323 - 2015-06-06 08:03:26 UTC
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Dunno, I would say it depends on the corp, some corps are never going to be wardeced.. ever..
OK In Null you have no gate guns and station guns but if you are a high sec corp you might not even know what they do anyway.

Sure. If it's not a specific risk for a corp then they don't need to worry about it. For most, the risk of wardecs is a thing.

Sentry guns do nothing against war targets.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1324 - 2015-06-06 08:13:56 UTC
Elaniera wrote:
Coz, Eve is so serious of course.

That's got to be why you recommend people stay in NPC Corps right. Because otherwise their precious space pixels might splode. Oh no. How terrible, even if they might find fun in other ways that you expect.

Also. Internet forum. Making posts, in whatever form people choose, is kind of part of the point.


I'm in an NPC corp. My pixels explode. Would you care to rephrase what you said?

As for recommending NPC corp membership, I really just recommend that people play the game THEIR way, rather than be someone else's goon. People come up with new and interesting solutions to problems when their minds are left alone to operate free of dogma and bias.
Internet space safety isn't really one of the reasons I recommend staying out of a player corp.

If it upsets you that I generally recommend NPC corp membership, maybe that is because you want to influence others with your dogma and bias and have trouble doing so in a setting like an NPC corp channel, where no one has any obligation to heed or obey your words. That must suck. :-(

Do I take the game seriously? lol, my main and only character is still in the State War Academy after over 3 years. That's a pretty serious statement about my attitude towards the game.
On the other hand, you take the game so seriously, you feel the need to create an alt to post your real opinions about the game, so let me ask again . . . why so serious?

As if there was even anything wrong with taking EVE seriously. Some people play poker during their lunchbreak and call every hand. Some people play poker as their career and win millions of dollars and write books about it and become famous for doing it. Is either of them doing it wrong?
Nevil Oscillator
#1325 - 2015-06-06 08:22:21 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Dunno, I would say it depends on the corp, some corps are never going to be wardeced.. ever..
OK In Null you have no gate guns and station guns but if you are a high sec corp you might not even know what they do anyway.

Sure. If it's not a specific risk for a corp then they don't need to worry about it. For most, the risk of wardecs is a thing.

Sentry guns do nothing against war targets.



People only wardec me because I post on the forum. don't post here and you are probably completely safe
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1326 - 2015-06-06 08:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Nevil Oscillator wrote:
People only wardec me because I post on the forum. don't post here and you are probably completely safe

Yeah we get wardecced occasionally because of posts I make on the forum. The most recent a couple of months back over a thread on the use of links.

But it's not the only reason wardecs happen. New industrial corps, pilots auto piloting bling ships that can't be ganked at the time, people moving product to markets, mercs hired on contract, operating in a certain area, etc. there's lots of reasons wardecs happen.

Being prepared for them is not a bad thing.
Elaniera
Involuntary Crowdsourcing
#1327 - 2015-06-06 08:50:56 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Elaniera wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
If there aren't enough for you to get your jollies, too bad.

How do I get my jollies?

That's a good question. Please share. You sound like you aren't getting enough and it has something to do with NPC corps. Big smile

I thought you already knew. I eat babies for breakfast. Grind their bones into flour and bake bread out of it for my supper. Just like everyone in nullsec.

As for NPC Corps, please quote anywhere that I have said anything bad about them.

My only comments have been about the ridiculous statement saying that it isn't possible to survive in nullsec, when it very much is possible, no matter NPC Corp or player corp.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#1328 - 2015-06-06 10:51:11 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:


why so serious?

As if there was even anything wrong with taking EVE seriously. Some people play poker during their lunchbreak and call every hand. Some people play poker as their career and win millions of dollars and write books about it and become famous for doing it. Is either of them doing it wrong?


because some want to be all serious Big smile and No you are dead right, neither are doing it wrong.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1329 - 2015-06-06 15:35:41 UTC

Aza Ebanu wrote:
There are plenty of people in player corps. If there aren't enough for you to get your jollies, too bad.


People should not have automatic immunity to a combat mechanism when they are in space. Wardec immunity for NPC corps should be removed. Decc dodging should be removed. The fact that you're arguing someone gets "jollies" is a strawman. Please don't put words in our mouth, or associate emotions or motivations that we actually haven't explicitly stated.

Non-consensual PVP is an essential part of the game. Whether or not a group of players don't want to PVP or are terrible at PVP is beside the point. It's fine if you don't believe that and we can chalk it up to a disagreement. I'm not sure why my or anyone else's "jollies" enters the discussion.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Lucy Lopez
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1330 - 2015-06-06 16:12:28 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
People should not have automatic immunity to a combat mechanism when they are in space. Wardec immunity for NPC corps should be removed. Decc dodging should be removed. The fact that you're arguing someone gets "jollies" is a strawman. Please don't put words in our mouth, or associate emotions or motivations that we actually haven't explicitly stated.

Non-consensual PVP is an essential part of the game. Whether or not a group of players don't want to PVP or are terrible at PVP is beside the point. It's fine if you don't believe that and we can chalk it up to a disagreement. I'm not sure why my or anyone else's "jollies" enters the discussion.



Wardeccing isn't a combat mechanism, it's a strategy. If you want to explode NPC corp members in highsec then the sandbox already offers you various strategies for that. What you want is access to the easiest strategy of them all.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1331 - 2015-06-06 16:14:56 UTC

Lucy Lopez wrote:
Wardeccing isn't a combat mechanism, it's a strategy. If you want to explode NPC corp members in highsec then the sandbox already offers you various strategies for that. What you want is access to the easiest strategy of them all.


The equivalent of saying nullsec is easy because two parties can shoot each other freely.

Easy peasy!

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1332 - 2015-06-06 17:14:55 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Lucy Lopez wrote:
Wardeccing isn't a combat mechanism, it's a strategy. If you want to explode NPC corp members in highsec then the sandbox already offers you various strategies for that. What you want is access to the easiest strategy of them all.


The equivalent of saying nullsec is easy because two parties can shoot each other freely.

Easy peasy!


A bit more precision please, in non-highsec everybody can shoot everybody without noticeable consequences. In a highsec war only the involved corps can initially shoot each other without Concord involvement, which is a huge difference.

Personally I'm all against arranged fights, and wardecs are from that kind. If they wouldn't be needed today to attack corp structures in highsec, I would like to see them scrapped and replaced by a more implicit way of initiation a fight by just shooting. Shoot first, talk later - this is EvE. Blink

I'm my own NPC alt.

Pops Tickle
Tickle Industries
#1333 - 2015-06-06 17:20:36 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Aza Ebanu wrote:
There are plenty of people in player corps. If there aren't enough for you to get your jollies, too bad.


People should not have automatic immunity to a combat mechanism when they are in space. Wardec immunity for NPC corps should be removed. Decc dodging should be removed. The fact that you're arguing someone gets "jollies" is a strawman. Please don't put words in our mouth, or associate emotions or motivations that we actually haven't explicitly stated.

Non-consensual PVP is an essential part of the game. Whether or not a group of players don't want to PVP or are terrible at PVP is beside the point. It's fine if you don't believe that and we can chalk it up to a disagreement. I'm not sure why my or anyone else's "jollies" enters the discussion.


I disagree tangentially, Ms. Sibyyl. War declarations and npc corp immunity are mechanics built onto other mechanics. They are symptoms, so to speak. A more achieving approach would be to scrap the current mechanics regarding high-sec completely and finding a system that does not need patches in form of "asking CONCORD for their consent" and "offering people a way to avoid it".

CCP Rise wrote:

"We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed."

Source

Nevil Oscillator
#1334 - 2015-06-06 17:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevil Oscillator
Sibyyl wrote:


Non-consensual PVP is an essential part of the game.




Players exist within a universe where the actions of other have consequences to them but no it is not essential that everyone be taking the same risks for the same rewards. It is for the players to decide what will be out of their depth and if you had no shallow end then there would be no good or bad decision.

And that in my opinion is what Eve is all about.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1335 - 2015-06-06 17:34:41 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
Im trying to make ccp money here. They have data that shows people that stay in npc corps quit more often. They said corp ceos dont like recruiting noobs cuz of fear of awox, do you believe this is the main reason?

I believe people stay in npc corps (and therefor quit more often) to evade wars.

Are wars the most dangerous aspect to retention (players staying in npc corps) and therefore should be nerfed to increase player corp levels and retention?

Nerf wars to save the noobs and make people join player corps to increase retention and ccps wallet?


Ho hum...

The quality of trolling has really taken a turn for the worse.

This is not a signature.

Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1336 - 2015-06-07 02:02:41 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Aza Ebanu wrote:
There are plenty of people in player corps. If there aren't enough for you to get your jollies, too bad.


People should not have automatic immunity to a combat mechanism when they are in space. Wardec immunity for NPC corps should be removed. Decc dodging should be removed. The fact that you're arguing someone gets "jollies" is a strawman. Please don't put words in our mouth, or associate emotions or motivations that we actually haven't explicitly stated.

Non-consensual PVP is an essential part of the game. Whether or not a group of players don't want to PVP or are terrible at PVP is beside the point. It's fine if you don't believe that and we can chalk it up to a disagreement. I'm not sure why my or anyone else's "jollies" enters the discussion.


Okay let me put this NPC wardec idea to bed. According to lore, you belong to a racial empire corp. This corp is sponsored by the faction, but is not an element of the faction's military. If you go to war with that corp, you are declaring war on that corp's empire. All ships and corps friendly to that NPC corp will defend itself. Therefore, unless you are willing to go up against a bunch of NPCs supporting those capsuleers, you better leave that corp alone. Last but not least, the war dec is an agreement with concord, so they really wouldn't want the empires to fight or be drawn into war with capsuleers or each other.


TL;DR:
NPC corps are relatively neutral organizations of the four empires. Wardeccing an NPC corp is wardeccing an empire faction.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1337 - 2015-06-07 02:38:09 UTC

Aza Ebanu wrote:
Okay let me put this NPC wardec idea to bed. According to lore, you belong to a racial empire corp. This corp is sponsored by the faction, but is not an element of the faction's military. If you go to war with that corp, you are declaring war on that corp's empire. All ships and corps friendly to that NPC corp will defend itself. Therefore, unless you are willing to go up against a bunch of NPCs supporting those capsuleers, you better leave that corp alone. Last but not least, the war dec is an agreement with concord, so they really wouldn't want the empires to fight or be drawn into war with capsuleers or each other.


TL;DR:
NPC corps are relatively neutral organizations of the four empires. Wardeccing an NPC corp is wardeccing an empire faction.


"Mud wrestling with pigs don't work, because the pigs love it."

Having facpo aggress you for wardeccing NPC corps is acceptable. So on those terms you agree with deleting wardec immunity from the game?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1338 - 2015-06-07 03:00:15 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Aza Ebanu wrote:
There are plenty of people in player corps. If there aren't enough for you to get your jollies, too bad.


People should not have automatic immunity to a combat mechanism when they are in space. Wardec immunity for NPC corps should be removed. Decc dodging should be removed. The fact that you're arguing someone gets "jollies" is a strawman. Please don't put words in our mouth, or associate emotions or motivations that we actually haven't explicitly stated.

Non-consensual PVP is an essential part of the game. Whether or not a group of players don't want to PVP or are terrible at PVP is beside the point. It's fine if you don't believe that and we can chalk it up to a disagreement. I'm not sure why my or anyone else's "jollies" enters the discussion.


I understand what you are saying but, wardec immunity /= combat immunity. There is just a consequence for taking that kinda stuff into Empire space. Don't worry, non consensual PVP still exist in the game(even in high sec) without wardecs.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1339 - 2015-06-07 03:08:16 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Aza Ebanu wrote:
Okay let me put this NPC wardec idea to bed. According to lore, you belong to a racial empire corp. This corp is sponsored by the faction, but is not an element of the faction's military. If you go to war with that corp, you are declaring war on that corp's empire. All ships and corps friendly to that NPC corp will defend itself. Therefore, unless you are willing to go up against a bunch of NPCs supporting those capsuleers, you better leave that corp alone. Last but not least, the war dec is an agreement with concord, so they really wouldn't want the empires to fight or be drawn into war with capsuleers or each other.


TL;DR:
NPC corps are relatively neutral organizations of the four empires. Wardeccing an NPC corp is wardeccing an empire faction.


"Mud wrestling with pigs don't work, because the pigs love it."

Having facpo? aggress you for wardeccing NPC corps is acceptable. So on those terms you agree with deleting wardec immunity from the game?


facpo?

I wouldn't mind having some back up from Empire when at war at all. They could scale it based on size of attacking corp. It could be like FW, but more excitement. Give use to that Titan in New Caldari!Twisted It would never work because, CCP would have to get rid of CONCORD, bounties, NPC corp tax, and other lore/game breaking things. But it could awesome. Most of the mechanics already exist for it too.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1340 - 2015-06-07 03:17:04 UTC

Tipa Riot wrote:
A bit more precision please, in non-highsec everybody can shoot everybody without noticeable consequences. In a highsec war only the involved corps can initially shoot each other without Concord involvement, which is a huge difference.


And the defender can call in allies. They can invite anyone and everyone to shoot the aggressor without CONCORD. The attacker has no such capability.



Nevil Oscillator wrote:
Players exist within a universe where the actions of other have consequences to them but no it is not essential that everyone be taking the same risks for the same rewards. It is for the players to decide what will be out of their depth and if you had no shallow end then there would be no good or bad decision.

And that in my opinion is what Eve is all about.


We are talking about EVE, a non-consensual PVP spaceship game. We shouldn't provide a shallow end for a 5-year old player, just like we don't let 30-year olds stay in Kindergarten. I'm perfectly fine with rookies enjoying wardec immunity for a reasonable period of time. Why does a 5-year old player need this coddling?

If you wanted the shallow end hottub experience, isn't that what station spinning is for?

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.