Warfare & Tactics

I was thinking about how instant local is a + for the hunter. His scout knows if the system is empty or not, and he can keep his fleet moving.
The old saying is: "Boredom kills more fleets than any fight ever did."
Are you suggesting that local only appear for the hunter?
Or that guys jump in blind and spend time warping to empty spots in each system?

Not sure that any of these scenarios make for a 'better' fleet experience.

I'd also like to add:
I do gank targets of opportunity every chance I get.
I do nullsec PvE.
I do fleet roams.

OP has been pretty damn civil in his proposal. Props for that.
Myself and most other posters aren't arguing from a blind position. We're not just posting in a 'save the bears' thread. I/we all have a lot of experience we are arguing from.

Sidenote: I'm not sure that a character named afkalt should be allowed to post in a thread about afk ratters...
(Just kidding)

Wait, nullsec has the best rewards of all K-space? When did this change?

And here I thought the best rewards were hisec incursions and doing FW missions. Wow. I guess I was wrong.

Who gives a **** about null sec ratters? Why aren't we talking about the impacts of perfect local intel on all the other aspects of pvp in Kspace? Make all local chats in Kspace like Wspace, and make locator agents work only once every two hours or so. People talk about wanting to make EVE big again, well this would be a giant leap forward in that direction.

Then for these people this is the wrong game. If you do not want to PVP, you do not undock. It's that simple.



Wrong,
Scenario 1 - You don't catch the farmer and have wasted precious time as well as alerted the local forces to your presence. At that point the ball is in the court of the defender, whom is able to decide if they bring an escalation or not.



EVE in itself is already large enough, and it'll get worse for content if you completely remove local from non-wormhole space. That said, I do think that each level of "security" needs to be tiered in the effectiveness of local, as to benefit the PVP as a whole.

In the end it works in favour of both sides. The aggressor has a slightly better chance at catching someone in an anomaly, while the defenders will be able to bring reinforcements without instantly alerting the aggressor. It allows both sides to be more aware and focused on their game. If you're not semi-active bearing while watching netflix, you won't have a problem with a small change that helps the cutthroat mentality of 0.0 to come back.

No, the game is wrong. If one thing needs fixing its that people should be able to efficiently bear while in pvp fit ships. Expecting people to just have to sit there and lose ship after ship to some of the worst pvpers in the game just because they cant warp quick enough even if they were paying attention, is a horrible notion.



I often find the hunt is one of the best parts of eve. Distraction, speed, wits, creating a false impression in your opponent so he feels like he wants to engage. This is a great part of the game, but to you if it doesnt result in a cheap gank its just 'wasting precious time'.

In your extrapolation of scenario 1, thats also a win for you isnt it? You claim to be there for pvp, but imply their escalation imakes the scenario bad or out of your favor? I guess if you only want to fight pve boats that might be the case. if you are worried about the defender actually bringing out a pvp ship, then you can just leave.

Cant win em all. No amount of bad logic sperged on the forums will help with that.



I have dual ssds in raid zero. Are you asking me to complain about something i have never even considered?

The delay even on hdds is probably ~1s and is probably related to the server tick. You really are making a big deal out of smallest things.

As for nullsec. While i think the upcoming changes are convoluted, if people embrace them and its worth their effort to defend and attack each other, there should be a LOT more smaller scale movement and dispersed action as people fight for space and resources. THAT is how to restorr the 'cutthroat mentality' of nullsec. Not by making it easier to gank the odd ill fitted bear.

Why? thats your argument, layed bare. And a fix for the actual problem rather than what you mistakenly see as a problem.

Well, it fixes eve so that people can fight back while still making isk, which is probably not to your liking lol.

I do feel your pain though. You have a gang sitting in a wormhole waiting for you to get tackle on some bear for some lowest denominator pvp but he sees you in local and warps away leaving all your ganking buddies unsatiated and you feeling the pressure of another failed gank.

'if only ccp could make it so the bear cant see me before im landing near him' you think, TO THE FORUMS!

Your argument is that the game is "wrong" yet meanwhile you're ignoring that even the CCP devs have repeatedly said that PVP is an integral part of EVE. You're so focused on keeping the carebear motives up, that you ignore the fundamental basis of the game. That is the problem that we're stumbling over together and which is also why I no longer can take you serious.

The second you press undock, you consent to PVP. If you're unwilling to PVP and need a deterrent to be "safe" from most hunters, you should be living in high-sec space. Yes, that might result in a few less targets in nullsec but frankly it doesn't hurt it at all. People who seek absolute security in order to do their PVE, shouldn't be playing in space that's lawless (hence 0.0 security). You get warnings, you get notified and yet people go there to just bear.

If you are unwilling to accept that aspect of EVE, you throw away a vast part of the core gameplay.



You are in part correct, but you forget a few important aspects.

1. Without the destruction of ships in PVP, none of the manufacturers will have enough of a market to sustain their production.
2. You play the game how you wish, but each time you leave highsec you get a warning. You can disable this, but it does not void your consent to PVP in those regions. When you go there, you know you will get PVP even if you do not feel like it at times.

So yes,

You are correct that I do not dictate the direction of the game and I do not ever wish to ever say or think I do.
But while you're right that not everyone is into PVP, the fact of the matter is that each player venturing into low/null knows exactly what they are getting into. If they do not appreciate that, they either stay in high-sec or they move on to other ventures.

What stops your ratter from fitting their ships in 0.0 to be good for PVP as well? We can do that in wormholes, so why can't these people you're campaigning for? What stops your average ratter from having their mobile depot ready to rumble, and refit to PVP when they are getting engaged?

You're trying to champion the side of the PVE player, and while I wholly disagree with your perspective, I have to give you props for that. I just think you ask for it if you're not prepared. You want to know how I prepare >most< of my ships as wormhole player?

• 200 nanite paste
• Cloak + Probe Scanner
• 2x Mobile Depot
• 1x Mobile Tractor Unit

If you're even more of a bear, add 2-4 warp stabs into that list and you are 99% of the time able to prepare for any situation.
Now, I am aware that my playstyle and space I live in will require me to be prepared for things like that, but it's not strange to be able to refit when you're attacked. The kit that I have ready allows me to be ready for multiple situations because EVE is never the same.



I generally hunt solo or in groups upto 3-4 people. For the record. The blobbing is the main reason why I dislike playing in 0.0, next to the attitude of a lot of the groups. I guess that's a preference. But yea, I prefer to kill things with a small group, though if I find you in a carrier being dumb I will call some friends to come whore on it.



As said before by some other guys, people highly overestimate the speed and effectiveness of ships that go into battle.
When you're about to land on grid in any ship, including interceptors, there's a reasonable delay right there. It takes at least three seconds from appearing on grid to being able to lock, which in combination with the align time (2 sec?) and warp time means you have plenty of times to fly away.

On the other hand, any hunter trying to find content in the mass swathes of 0.0 space is fighting against extensive networks of intelligence by people simply reporting local to a channel, but other than that do nothing else. That's not a bad thing per sé but it allows the defending party to always know the movements right away upon leaving system A and entering either B or C. Same the other way around. You could bring in reinforcements and spook off the fleet

I'll stop answering your arguments Crosi because you're blissfully ignoring the meaning of my points, and just grasp at ways to justify bear-secure space. Have a wonderful day, and enjoy your time in EVE =)

Fk that shiz if I was you Jules I'd stick to ur usual games like wow and witcher and leave eve discussions to us that actually play trolololo

Seriously tho if you want no local and less population density (which it would cause) go wh space, it's dead as fk and has no local