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daltonism problem with new icons, impossible to do PvP

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Ocip
Star.Men
Fraternity.
#21 - 2015-06-05 17:53:24 UTC
support this
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-06-05 17:56:01 UTC
+1 OP

A matter very easy to fix.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Shin Kudo Udan
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#23 - 2015-06-05 18:02:23 UTC
+1, my father was daltonic too.
Zephon Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-06-05 18:10:10 UTC
+1 support
Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-06-05 18:19:08 UTC
this time i hope thing can change.

for reply to some suggestion:
i have the correct overview with only hostile in overview but in "space" i need to understand istantly the field or i may bomb with 6 squad of bomber the blue instead of red. with 400-500 people in local and 30-40 bomber to drive on target i need to understand the field istantly or i cannot drive correctly 40 bomb on target.

in other hand i'm a intie pilot and not having the "in space" view understandable instantly i cannot understand if pointing a hostile is a suicide or a excellent move.

--

after that i'm in contact with a couple of csm10 and i hope we can fix that bug to allow accessibility to daltonic\color blind.

--

what we need is a not transparent, and very clear color in the background of icons , and possibly customizable.

other mmorpg do that as basic option.
MiGStalKeR
Star.Men
Fraternity.
#26 - 2015-06-05 18:30:34 UTC
+1 to OP
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#27 - 2015-06-05 18:34:10 UTC
CCP just doesn't care.

People have brought up color-blindness concerns repeatedly in the past, and every single time CCP either ignored it or made some vague promises that never came to fruition.

I think they try to follow design principles that allow the game to be used by people with color-blindness (such as with the new Neocom icons) but they don't seem to test for that at all. It's a shame, because there are programs that let you do this so it's not like CCP would even need to hire someone who's colorblind just to test their UI.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-06-05 18:35:15 UTC
I think I'm confused.

Is it that he can't tell the difference between '+' and '-' because he is color blind or he can't tell the difference between triangles, pentagons, hexagons, etc. because he is color blind?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2015-06-05 18:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
I think I'm confused.

Is it that he can't tell the difference between '+' and '-' because he is color blind or he can't tell the difference between triangles, pentagons, hexagons, etc. because he is color blind?

It's that the lowered contrast ratios in the colour application combined with the much slimmer shapes used leaves no “out”: the uniqueness of one design element can no longer outweigh the flaws in another.

…I think…
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-06-05 18:39:27 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
CCP just doesn't care.

People have brought up color-blindness concerns repeatedly in the past, and every single time CCP either ignored it or made some vague promises that never came to fruition.

I think they try to follow design principles that allow the game to be used by people with color-blindness (such as with the new Neocom icons) but they don't seem to test for that at all. It's a shame, because there are programs that let you do this so it's not like CCP would even need to hire someone who's colorblind just to test their UI.




They don't even need a program that does that, just desaturate those icons and check how visible the differences are on the background; then adjust accordingly.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Salemgra Halcyon
Sky Judgement
#31 - 2015-06-05 19:11:17 UTC
Support!
And some great ideas how to fix this.
My suggestion:
Have a switch that removes that fading effect.
Only hard colors without "see through"-effect.
Then you have two very distinct grays which can be distuingished.


@Core: Do something, you are a CSM!
Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#32 - 2015-06-05 19:14:01 UTC
Ajunta Pal wrote:
instead of using icon color to identify friend or foe you could use the background color, on the overview ofcoarse - doesn't work so well if you aren't using the overview. Personally while I'm not color blind, I do have a problem where the color white "glows" and is blurs into everything else, reading black text on a white background is nearly impossible, while reading white text on black background is just "fuzzy"


For colorblind people, this is the problem. The icon's aren't clear, and the background color (which a lot of people use), can't be reliably used by colorblind people ;)

imagine the example you give, applied to the whole game. That's what a colorblind person probably sees (i dont know for sure because i'm colorblind and dont have the "normal" frame of reference ;) ). I just know that if i see a blue and a red next to eachother on the overview, i have to really focus on both to see which is which, and generally keeping an eye on the overview has left me with some very narrow escapes when exploring, due to just not having the red stand out enough to draw attention (i basically have to constantly focus on the overview, and the names, in order to see what changed instead of other people i play with who just see when the big red thing is there even when not paying attention too much, it just doesn't stand out)
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#33 - 2015-06-05 19:33:02 UTC
+1 Supported




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DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#34 - 2015-06-05 19:41:13 UTC
Wait i'm a tad confused.

If you are pvping, couldn't you just set up your overview to get rid of all green, blu and purple, and just keep orange, red and neut? then basically anything on the overview you shoot?

You wouldn't need colors to differentiate anything, cause everything on the overview is fair game.

Or can;t you just adjust your own background colors on the overveiw so it will blink red is its a viable target? or blink blue, or purple, or orange or whatever?

I'm not color blind, so don;t have this issue, and the new icons don;t really bother me, but i guess i'm saying.. i don;t get issue? The icons have changed but the settings you used before when the icons were white and red should not of changed... so.. someone mind explaining the issue?

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Admiral Zaar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-06-05 19:46:29 UTC
That's really ironic! While real world try to delete all architectonical barriers a virtual universe creates new ones. I'm shure CCP will solve the problem asap.
+1 support for my CEO !!
I have visual problems too with this new icons indeed!
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-06-05 19:49:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Caviar Liberta
Verlyn wrote:
Well hey I was just trying to wind you up, because I actually also hate the changes they made to icons.

They weren't needed.

But I think, the angrier you get, they'll listen, just make sure your community's behind you and those of your fellow daltonians throughout the game.





I agree, the changes to the icons on the overview are horrid. *quick side note, this is not an attack on CCP* Now back to the topic. In my opinion the icon changes are to simple and shows perhaps a lack of wanting to put any effort into the work needed in updating them.
Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2015-06-05 19:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Sbrodor
if someone is color-blind \ daltonic and have issue with new icon's colors in space please mail me, we are trying to arrange a meeting with csm and ui developers .
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2015-06-05 19:54:26 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Wait i'm a tad confused.

If you are pvping, couldn't you just set up your overview to get rid of all green, blu and purple, and just keep orange, red and neut? then basically anything on the overview you shoot?

You wouldn't need colors to differentiate anything, cause everything on the overview is fair game.

Or can;t you just adjust your own background colors on the overveiw so it will blink red is its a viable target? or blink blue, or purple, or orange or whatever?

I'm not color blind, so don;t have this issue, and the new icons don;t really bother me, but i guess i'm saying.. i don;t get issue? The icons have changed but the settings you used before when the icons were white and red should not of changed... so.. someone mind explaining the issue?


Not color blind but being in Faction Warfare I have had to setup my overview to avoid friendly fire on others that are in either Galmil or Minmatar FW that might have bad security status. The tools are there set the overview to over come most short coming in the game or visual limitations as the OP mentioned.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2015-06-05 20:01:24 UTC
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Ajunta Pal wrote:
instead of using icon color to identify friend or foe you could use the background color, on the overview ofcoarse - doesn't work so well if you aren't using the overview. Personally while I'm not color blind, I do have a problem where the color white "glows" and is blurs into everything else, reading black text on a white background is nearly impossible, while reading white text on black background is just "fuzzy"


For colorblind people, this is the problem. The icon's aren't clear, and the background color (which a lot of people use), can't be reliably used by colorblind people ;)

imagine the example you give, applied to the whole game. That's what a colorblind person probably sees (i dont know for sure because i'm colorblind and dont have the "normal" frame of reference ;) ). I just know that if i see a blue and a red next to eachother on the overview, i have to really focus on both to see which is which, and generally keeping an eye on the overview has left me with some very narrow escapes when exploring, due to just not having the red stand out enough to draw attention (i basically have to constantly focus on the overview, and the names, in order to see what changed instead of other people i play with who just see when the big red thing is there even when not paying attention too much, it just doesn't stand out)


I have Red-Green issues. What that means is when you have mixed pigments of red and green next to each other I have a hard time separating them. Of course the closer you get to their true colors (cherry red or granny apple green) I have no problem with.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#40 - 2015-06-05 20:04:30 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Wait i'm a tad confused.

If you are pvping, couldn't you just set up your overview to get rid of all green, blu and purple, and just keep orange, red and neut? then basically anything on the overview you shoot?

You wouldn't need colors to differentiate anything, cause everything on the overview is fair game.

Or can;t you just adjust your own background colors on the overveiw so it will blink red is its a viable target? or blink blue, or purple, or orange or whatever?

I'm not color blind, so don;t have this issue, and the new icons don;t really bother me, but i guess i'm saying.. i don;t get issue? The icons have changed but the settings you used before when the icons were white and red should not of changed... so.. someone mind explaining the issue?


Not color blind but being in Faction Warfare I have had to setup my overview to avoid friendly fire on others that are in either Galmil or Minmatar FW that might have bad security status. The tools are there set the overview to over come most short coming in the game or visual limitations as the OP mentioned.



Yea.. i just don;t understand. if you had color blind issues before the icons changed, how did you handle it? The color of the icons are the same, they just changed shape and maybe the overview blends a bit.. but red is still red, and white is still white. So.. again the issue is what exactly?

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.