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Apparently it is OK to reuse skins of unique ships

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Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-06-05 02:34:34 UTC

Entity, I don't have a collection like yours. Most people don't, and some of them are probably hating on you for that reason.

This move is akin to putting Max Singularity's outfit on NES store, reusing the graphic assets and putting a new name on it. Unique items should be unique, no matter what the demand for them.



And hilarious that people are arguing utility. It's a video game, folks. All of your space pixels are equally worthless.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#62 - 2015-06-05 03:14:41 UTC
Xtreem wrote:
What I can say is i am VERY pleased to have offloaded my scorp ishkone watch ships before skins hit, I made isk, if i had kept past this change i would have lost ALOT, i feel for the people that had rare ships that were turned into skins :-(


I dunno, having a unique ship that probably never leaves the hangar vs a skin you can reuse over and over on any scorp. Although that way you never see it on a killmail. market sell orders are for 20 bil and that is what I remember them selling for. I did buy a rattlesnake victory edition for the skin. although I'm kinda over the SKIN hype and thinking about offloading.

the stratios emergency responder at least has special stats.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#63 - 2015-06-05 03:20:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
I totally get where entity is coming from on this.

From CCP's own devblog, part of the reason we can't have any SKIN on any ship is because of visual gameplay implications (we can't have an Ishtar Quafe Edition because that might be visually confusing with a Vexor Quafe Edition, despite the other differences in overview and d-scan):

CCP FoxFour wrote:
Another concern of allowing any SKIN on any ship is making Tech 1 ships resemble Tech 2 ships which would have visual gameplay implications. While deciding what SKINs to offer in the release of this feature we carefully selected SKINs for ships by making sure that if we offered a SKIN for that ship the same look was not used by its Tech 2 counterpart. This is the reason why for example there is no Sarum SKIN for the Apocalypse, as it would too closely resemble the Paladin.


Yet here, just because the Stratios Emergency Responder is not a T2 variant, it's ok to have the potential for that very same visual gameplay implication.

That seems like a strange decision in my view.

A lot of us in the forum are happy to scream blue murder when we feel an issue affects us personally, but switch very quickly to HTFU when it only affects someone else.

In this case, it seems like that is happening here too; which to a degree is a shame, since it would be great if we stuck together as a community to continue to let CCP know that the way they have managed the SKINs implementation has been poor all around. This is another example of their continuing inability to manage the SKINs project effectively for the community.
Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
#64 - 2015-06-05 03:39:45 UTC
How am I supposed to feel like a special little snowflake now Cry
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#65 - 2015-06-05 03:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Edit: I apologize, I spoke out of turn on the basis of certain misunderstandings of the future plan for ship SKINs. Please don't rely on my earlier comments as a statement about where this feature is going. Thanks for your patience!

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#66 - 2015-06-05 03:50:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
CCP Darwin wrote:
Note that your chances of encountering a Stratios Emergency Responder in space are extremely close to zero, while T2 ships are very common.

Scammer:

  • Apply Stratios skin, screenshot.
  • Post contract selling Stratios Emergency Responder and include link to image for extra visual proof.

Visual gameplay implication, surely?

Obviously a trap for the stupid, but it's no different in terms of the principle of visual implication than 2 ships being in space together (what's the chance the players are zoomed in enough to actually see them visually on screen?)

Irrespective of whether you are likely or not to see a Stratios Emergency Responder in space, the principle of visual gameplay implication is still there. So you are either consistent in that approach. Or you're not. In this case, it's arguable that you aren't being consistent.

So whether it makes sense from a development perspective, that's great. Developer issues are obviously important, but so are community issues. On this project they have been somewhat in conflict and remain so.
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#67 - 2015-06-05 05:29:48 UTC
I think that taking scamming as a reasoning is somewhat shallow, given that there already have been scams invoking the Etana, Guardian Vexor and State Raven already. I guess the combination of the hull and the green corner mark fool some people.

Hell, they don't even have to be remotely similar - I've seen Charon/Carbon and Gnosis/Gneiss scams actually work (people raging in local).

Contract markets can be very entertaining.

--

Given that the special ed ships though generally have different attributes (slot layout, PG/Cap/Dronebay), I'm not entirely convinced that the look of the ship detracts from it being a hanger queen anyway.

However, the approach CCP has taken does appear inconsistent. The Cambion (as an example) visually is very different from a Nugoeihuvi skinned Merlin, whilst both are a red-highlighted version of the same hull.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#68 - 2015-06-05 05:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Rob Kashuken wrote:
I think that taking scamming as a reasoning is somewhat shallow, given that there already have been scams invoking the Etana, Guardian Vexor and State Raven already. I guess the combination of the hull and the green corner mark fool some people.

...
...

However, the approach CCP has taken does appear inconsistent. The Cambion (as an example) visually is very different from a Nugoeihuvi skinned Merlin, whilst both are a red-highlighted version of the same hull.


Scamming isn't the reasoning. It's just an example of the same principle (my earlier post explains the reasoning as I see it).

The reasoning is CCPs own words. No one else's. It's in the devblog.
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#69 - 2015-06-05 05:45:17 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I would hope the new sanctuary SKIN and the Statios Emergency responder would look different.


From the linked picture and images of the Stratios Emergency Responder, they really are too similar. Got to look very closely to see any difference. The distinction should be greater.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2015-06-05 05:58:28 UTC
Lena Lazair wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Bit harsh. Those 'lucky few' might have worked hard to be awarded or to buy their unique items. I don't set any store in them either, but I can see why some do, and I really don't see any need to sneer at people who have different goals/hobbies. If I won an AT ship or put a lot of effort into acquiring a collectible, I'd go nuts if CCP arbitrarily ruined that just to make some dirty MT money. It is disrespectful, on various levels, and it cripples parts of the market that are actually quite fun.


Except that's not what's happening at all. The SER is unique because of its stats, not its skin. I'm pretty sure no one with a Chremoas would care if CCP released a Dramiel skin that looked the same, because the point of a Chremoas isn't how it looks, it's how it flies.

If all you wanted to do with an SER was spin the pretty ship in the hangar, you didn't need to own it. You could do that from the ship preview thingy. The release of skins has literally no impact on your ability to continue to spin your SER in the hangar. An SER is unique for its stats alone, which are still just as relevant as ever the moment you undock one.


Very well said. Nothing to add. Does it really matter if The color would be slightly different? Dark blue or deep blue. Vexor's family looks very similar to each other, meanwhile GV does recognize easily. Name and Stats making them uniqe as well as quantity available.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#71 - 2015-06-05 06:01:40 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
I think that taking scamming as a reasoning is somewhat shallow, given that there already have been scams invoking the Etana, Guardian Vexor and State Raven already. I guess the combination of the hull and the green corner mark fool some people.

...
...

However, the approach CCP has taken does appear inconsistent. The Cambion (as an example) visually is very different from a Nugoeihuvi skinned Merlin, whilst both are a red-highlighted version of the same hull.


Scamming isn't the reasoning. It's just an example of the same principle (my earlier post explains the reasoning as I see it).

The reasoning is CCPs own words. No one else's. It's in the devblog.


Ah, ok. Cheers for the clarification.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#72 - 2015-06-05 06:08:09 UTC
Entity wrote:

There's a monument outside jita 4-4 that would like to have a word with you.

I bet if shooting it made you go suspect, a lot fewer people would go and shoot it over minor things. Thus actually reserving it for major things.
Of course, shooting the monument was not what actually changed CCP's mind, it was just a small part of the overall protest that occurred.
Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2015-06-05 06:10:05 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
[quote=Scipio Artelius]

Note that, while there is value in having certain items remain very rare in the game, CCP has never promised that rare items would remain rare for all time, or hold their value indefinitely.

Niiiice! collectors ships for everyone?
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#74 - 2015-06-05 06:54:15 UTC
Wasn't that the ship they donated to Somer-Blink?

Evil RatKid
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#75 - 2015-06-05 07:14:30 UTC
I'm waiting for Imperial Issue style skins for apocalypse, armageddon, and paladin!

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
Satan's Spawn
Satan's Enterprises
#76 - 2015-06-05 08:19:07 UTC
Skins are al another waste of EVE time tbh. One of those silly things in game.

Meanwhile, actual bugs remain in game for years - fix the PI graphics so that they don't bork and go all weird for starters. Spend money there instead.
Swaghetti YoIonese
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2015-06-05 08:55:17 UTC
I have been told entity is the richest guy in eve online with two digit multiples of trillions. ccp, plz, if you make a change on behalf of a single multiple trillion heavy individuum who sheds some tears about some pixels, then I start writing my personal list of changes you should make on my behalf. thank you
Pelle Wittewoa
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2015-06-05 09:31:33 UTC
Entity wrote:
Really?

So you hand out unique ships as event reward and then just go "lol we'll reuse this skin because only a handful of people have it anyway. We don't care about upsetting customers that obtained those ships, we just care about getting a few more bucks from skins"

Thanks, CCP. Thanks a lot.

I guess I can look forward to seeing the skins of all the unique ships I have in the NEX store.

Seriously though, the visual identity of these ships is part of what makes them unique. I think it's a bad call to reuse those skins. It's not good for the game in the long run.


This is your punishment for generally being a elitist bastard, reseller and a nooby ripoff. Its part of your image that you support: "I'm entity, sell me your rare items for bottumprices, and i might not resell them later for topdallar with alts"

Wtt emergency vs 5 cargo expand II bpos?

Regards/groetjes

Pelle
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#79 - 2015-06-05 09:35:30 UTC
Swaghetti YoIonese wrote:
I have been told entity is the richest guy in eve online with two digit multiples of trillions. ccp, plz, if you make a change on behalf of a single multiple trillion heavy individuum who sheds some tears about some pixels, then I start writing my personal list of changes you should make on my behalf. thank you

And if you don't support other players (not entity specifically. What your individual wealth is shouldn't matter), then why should anyone including CCP support you and your list of changes?
Swaghetti YoIonese
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2015-06-05 10:00:02 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Swaghetti YoIonese wrote:
I have been told entity is the richest guy in eve online with two digit multiples of trillions. ccp, plz, if you make a change on behalf of a single multiple trillion heavy individuum who sheds some tears about some pixels, then I start writing my personal list of changes you should make on my behalf. thank you

And if you don't support other players (not entity specifically. What your individual wealth is shouldn't matter), then why should anyone including CCP support you and your list of changes?


I just wanted to put this whining of a high-flown individuum into relation. I just dont like ppl putting them selves as super special, only because they have unlimited amount of isks.