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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Sojourn: Void
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Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#81 - 2015-06-04 15:26:09 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
We are all locked into this cycle, on all sides, and I can only have faith that one day we will be able to break out of it, and have peace.


I hold you with respect and regard, Valentina.

However, if the cycle is to ever break, someone has to start moving against it.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#82 - 2015-06-04 16:06:41 UTC
Liam Antolliere wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
We are all locked into this cycle, on all sides, and I can only have faith that one day we will be able to break out of it, and have peace.


I hold you with respect and regard, Valentina.

However, if the cycle is to ever break, someone has to start moving against it.


The arenas of the gladiator fights that is the Faction War are not the place to do that.

You need to start somewhat deeper if you want to treat THIS disease.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#83 - 2015-06-04 16:07:13 UTC
Jili Tonari wrote:

In "killing" Hamish, did it give you pleasure? Did it achieve some grand goal? If you killed him or me or another million Matari, would it matter to your lost little soul? No.

As you spend time fighting you will come to learn that, yes, achieving a kill does give you pleasure. It's not pretty and it's not nice, but it happens to almost everyone that I've spoken to. The best I can manage, these days, is not to let it become the most important pleasure or the only pleasure in my life and not to kill simply for the rush - but if you are at all cut out for the work then you will also tread this slippery slope.
Jili Tonari wrote:

Matari lives matter.

Yours don't. Not anymore.

They never did, don't kid yourself, Jill. We don't expect that you care for our crews, we expect that you allow their escape pods to fly unmolested and, in return, we extend yours the same courtesy. Reciprocity - it's good for business.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Jili Tonari
Doomheim
#84 - 2015-06-04 16:46:32 UTC
Vincent Pryce wrote:

Quote:
You and your folks at PYRE seem very hell-bent on pretending to some kind of morality and honor you don't have. You are paid killers for the Slavers of Amarr.


Just because your feeble mind is incapable of comprehending moral guidelines and codes of honor outside your own does not mean they are not there. Perhaps a century of slavery would help your future generations see the bigger picture.

As a corporate entity ours is a simple morality and code of honor. Do not shoot pilots marked blue, and we all adhere to that adamantly.

Quote:
Matari lives matter.


No, they do not.

We are the superior predator. If you do not wish for them to die, have them stay of our way or pay us to care.



This. So much this.

These are the words that I'd prefer to hear. These words are vile, but they're honest. There is much truth in this. There are no excuses, no pretense. You got an honest evil on you.

Simple drive for ISK, protect your corp, shoot anything not tagged as friendly and follow the trail of ISK where it leads no matter who gets damaged in the process? It'd be nice if the rest of you spoke like this.

We Matari have a millenia of slavery under our belt. I think we see the bigger picture better than anyone in the cluster. These things that drive you are transitory. ISK? Any of us can make a ton of it without firing a shot. So you fight for a cause if you're not a brute. Your cause be ISK. The Amarr fight for their God. The Gallente fight for their freedom and the Caldari fight for their homeworld. We Matari fight for Matari. We don't chase the ISK. We don't chase transitory entities like gods or corporations. We do what we do for people. Not just the people in the here and now, but for the people we were and for the generations to come. In the end, corporations fail. ISK means nothing. Scriptures and dogmas change to fit new paradigms. People are the constant. A tribe minds their own. A human that don't have the preservation of humanity as it's main goal, creates the danger that no one survives. TLF fights to defend. To liberate. To build the next ten generations that won't feel the yoke of a slave collar and fly free to any star, any galaxy they can reach.

ISK-grabbers like you and yours might get to be a footnote to the record of humanity. You may cull the herds, or fine tune the gene pool. But you don't create. You are the things folk gotta rise against. We may never be rid of evil, but we will never surrender to it. And when we can't protect...oh yeah, we avenge.

I'll grace your kill records soon enough. And eventually you'll be in mine. But what I create with my life with go down in history when all you've destroyed is long gone forgotten.

“Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves.”
Jev North
Doomheim
#85 - 2015-06-04 16:51:16 UTC
Jili Tonari wrote:
It'd be nice if the rest of you spoke like this.

You haven't been paying a lot of attention, have you?

Jili Tonari wrote:
But what I create with my life with go down in history when all you've destroyed is long gone forgotten.

Good luck!

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Jili Tonari
Doomheim
#86 - 2015-06-04 16:58:04 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
If you want to argue morals, argue with PIE, or someone else who has more attachment to a specific set of morality.

I have flown in a corporation under the banner of the TLF before, and a pirate entity allied with the TLF, we did the same sort of things that Pyre does now. No one has the moral highground in capsuleer affairs. You can make arguments about the Empire or the Republic being more moral than one another, but once you add capsuleers to the mix you will see we are all monsters in the end.

Jili I appreciate your strength of character and your willingness to do the right thing as you see it, and how much you care. I do however, feel you are barking up the wrong tree so to speak. I don't expect my words will phase you, I think there is too much pain and anger in your heart for that. For what it is worth, I am sorry things are this way, but blood will continue to be spilled, in the name of isk, or God or Freedom, or even protecting that which is most important to you. We are all locked into this cycle, on all sides, and I can only have faith that one day we will be able to break out of it, and have peace.



Amarr say a person can't serve two Masters. They're right. Time is closer for you to chose who you are, what you are. Don't make decisons because of your friends. Don't make decisions on the material things. Don't do what's expected. Don't be the happy slave girl who don't want to cause no trouble.

Cause trouble. Stir sh*t up. Do what you do because it's what the heart wants. And then be that thing. Yo, it's hard chica, I know. But no progress was ever made from a sitting position.

Do you want to create something for your tribe or kill things for ISK?

Yeah, we in a soup of things we can't control, but it won't always be like this. So what's the future Val gonna be like?

“Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves.”
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#87 - 2015-06-04 17:17:15 UTC
Jili Tonari wrote:

We Matari have a millenia of slavery under our belt. I think we see the bigger picture better than anyone in the cluster. These things that drive you are transitory. ISK? Any of us can make a ton of it without firing a shot. So you fight for a cause if you're not a brute. Your cause be ISK. The Amarr fight for their God. The Gallente fight for their freedom and the Caldari fight for their homeworld. We Matari fight for Matari. We don't chase the ISK. We don't chase transitory entities like gods or corporations. We do what we do for people. Not just the people in the here and now, but for the people we were and for the generations to come. In the end, corporations fail. ISK means nothing. Scriptures and dogmas change to fit new paradigms. People are the constant. A tribe minds their own. A human that don't have the preservation of humanity as it's main goal, creates the danger that no one survives. TLF fights to defend. To liberate. To build the next ten generations that won't feel the yoke of a slave collar and fly free to any star, any galaxy they can reach.



Unfortunately, you are simply wrong. We Matari are exactly as money grabbing, backstabbing, live-for-the-moment scumbags as everyone else in the cluster. Just because you've got some moral superiority complex going doesn't make you right. I spent four years in the TLF, and you know what I learned? "Good and honest Matari men and women" are a spirits-damned tiny minority.

ISK spins the wheel, and we're all along for the ride.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Jili Tonari
Doomheim
#88 - 2015-06-04 17:31:03 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:

Unfortunately, you are simply wrong. We Matari are exactly as money grabbing, backstabbing, live-for-the-moment scumbags as everyone else in the cluster. Just because you've got some moral superiority complex going doesn't make you right. I spent four years in the TLF, and you know what I learned? "Good and honest Matari men and women" are a spirits-damned tiny minority.

ISK spins the wheel, and we're all along for the ride.



If ISK is your tribe, you don't get to ID yourself as Matari. There ain't no "we."

I ain't saying we all perfect shining things. Everyone got a darkness in them. But if all you create in life is a pile of ISK and a bloodbath, you kinda missing the point on what life is about.

“Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves.”
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#89 - 2015-06-04 17:37:43 UTC
Jili Tonari wrote:

Like, Hamish knew what he signed up for. So no sweat right? Live n learn.

But the 25-plus other ships and crew you've killed since writing this post. You don't mention them. Killing is easy after the first one right? You seem to have no remorse now. Some were pirates like that Goon in the Slasher. Most were TLF.

You and your folks at PYRE seem very hell-bent on pretending to some kind of morality and honor you don't have. You are paid killers for the Slavers of Amarr.


Someone once said, a single death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic, think about that. Pyre is immoral, so isn't Scope Works, so isn't PIE, so isn't the Tlf and the 24th ic, ect ect. Welcome to the warzone. Good luck finding any major entity who works on morality. If they were moral, they wouldn't be shooting each other. You can try to be moral yourself, you can't make your surroundings moral, or if you do, you'll probably get killed by one of your own in time.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Jili Tonari wrote:

In "killing" Hamish, did it give you pleasure? Did it achieve some grand goal? If you killed him or me or another million Matari, would it matter to your lost little soul? No.

As you spend time fighting you will come to learn that, yes, achieving a kill does give you pleasure. It's not pretty and it's not nice, but it happens to almost everyone that I've spoken to. The best I can manage, these days, is not to let it become the most important pleasure or the only pleasure in my life and not to kill simply for the rush - but if you are at all cut out for the work then you will also tread this slippery slope.


Truer words have yet to be spoken. Your first few, maybe not. After about your hundredth kill, you'll find yourself happily scooping up what remains of your victims ship and setting up for the next. That's partially the reason why your crew comes back with you at the end of the day.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#90 - 2015-06-04 17:43:33 UTC
Jili Tonari wrote:
But no progress was ever made from a sitting position.


I see we are unfamiliar with politics. Sometimes great progress can be made when enough people sit down and shut up long enough for an idea or action to lose traction. It's not as fun and engaging as pew-pewing, but it gets the job done.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Matar Ronin
#91 - 2015-06-04 17:49:32 UTC
Jili Tonari wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:

Unfortunately, you are simply wrong. We Matari are exactly as money grabbing, backstabbing, live-for-the-moment scumbags as everyone else in the cluster. Just because you've got some moral superiority complex going doesn't make you right. I spent four years in the TLF, and you know what I learned? "Good and honest Matari men and women" are a spirits-damned tiny minority.

ISK spins the wheel, and we're all along for the ride.



If ISK is your tribe, you don't get to ID yourself as Matari. There ain't no "we."

I ain't saying we all perfect shining things. Everyone got a darkness in them. But if all you create in life is a pile of ISK and a bloodbath, you kinda missing the point on what life is about.


Jill the lust for isk and the thrill of the kill completely consume the humanity of many pilots.

They simply become weapons systems that talk, devoid of a real sense of honor or a human conscious. But remnants of their former humanity try to reassert themselves as close bonds with those they fly with. They have nothing left to feel loyalty to so they elevate each other.

Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#92 - 2015-06-04 18:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Matar Ronin wrote:
Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.


I've said it before and I'll say it again - when you fight a war for impossible objectives simply for a chance to strike at those you hate, then you're no better than those who fight for money. Some would say you're worse.

When you fight for blood, blood can be your only end. Money is a far more honest motivation.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#93 - 2015-06-04 18:49:27 UTC
Jili Tonari wrote:
The solo kill was Hamish McPhee of the Hoplite Brigade right? A new pilot according to his service records. Likely he didn't have a crew in that Tristan. Don't matter now if he did.

His name is Hamish. Say it. Hamish.

You weave a nice story about a solo kill. Like you actually care about your actions or something.

Like, Hamish knew what he signed up for. So no sweat right? Live n learn.

But the 25-plus other ships and crew you've killed since writing this post. You don't mention them. Killing is easy after the first one right? You seem to have no remorse now. Some were pirates like that Goon in the Slasher. Most were TLF.

You and your folks at PYRE seem very hell-bent on pretending to some kind of morality and honor you don't have. You are paid killers for the Slavers of Amarr.

F*cking own up to it b*tch. Stop playin like you some kind of hero. There's no way, be you paid by Amarr or Sansha that you come out of this smelling nice. End the make-believe. You ain't a swashbuckler, you're a hired thug. At least the Amarr genuinely believe in what they do.

In "killing" Hamish, did it give you pleasure? Did it achieve some grand goal? If you killed him or me or another million Matari, would it matter to your lost little soul? No.

But it matters to us.

Matari lives matter.

Yours don't. Not anymore.



I think that you completely missed the point.

Also, if Matari lives matter so much, why Colelie... ? Why ?
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#94 - 2015-06-04 18:55:24 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.


All I've seen from you are words. Haven't seen you stand for anything lately.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#95 - 2015-06-04 19:53:14 UTC
Oh, lots of activity. I'm going to have trouble addressing this all very well.

... okay, I'm going to have trouble addressing a lot of this at all.


Directrix Mithra:

I'm afraid I'll have to address your points implicitly, at least for now, because if I don't this project will just turn into a debate between us. I'd probably better just get on with it, and maybe I can address your critique in the process.

If not, we'll still be here at the end.


Jili Tonari:

"Hamish."

I recorded my encounter with Hamish McPhee because it was my first. I left his name out because I didn't want to gloat or embarrass him.

It's not a hero's record; I'm not a hero. I'm a fumble-fingered novice, and if you take a closer look at those kills you'll see how poor a part I played in most of them.

You and Aldrith Shutaq are firmly in agreement about what makes an admirable opponent. Me ... I guess I'd care more if I saw any sign the universe agreed with either of you.

I have my own reasons. They're not backed by any imperial power, or maybe even by my present associates (though I don't think they mind).

They're just mine. It turns out, that's enough.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#96 - 2015-06-04 19:57:58 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Jill the lust for isk and the thrill of the kill completely consume the humanity of many pilots.

They simply become weapons systems that talk, devoid of a real sense of honor or a human conscious. But remnants of their former humanity try to reassert themselves as close bonds with those they fly with. They have nothing left to feel loyalty to so they elevate each other.

Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.

Okay, so, speaking as someone pretty much content to be a weapon?

... you know what, never mind. This is what this project is about in the first place. I'll reply by just continuing.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#97 - 2015-06-04 20:29:21 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Directrix Mithra:

I'm afraid I'll have to address your points implicitly, at least for now, because if I don't this project will just turn into a debate between us. I'd probably better just get on with it, and maybe I can address your critique in the process.

If not, we'll still be here at the end.

Oh, I by no means aim to monopolize your time for replies. I'm also quite content without getting an explicit response from you. Yet I'm oblieged to respond on a public stage like this, when I see something that isn't quite correct as far as can be discerned by me. If not for you, then all the other readers.
Maria Daphiti
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#98 - 2015-06-04 20:56:52 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.


All I've seen from you are words. Haven't seen you stand for anything lately.


I don't think he actually backs up his words with actions.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#99 - 2015-06-04 23:34:57 UTC
Personally, I have no pretense at morality or nobility as a paid killer for the Slavers of the Amarr Empire.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#100 - 2015-06-04 23:43:15 UTC
I was about to wax lyrically about death, sparks of data, biofeedback and catecholamine induced rushes but I'm not in the mood for this.
Death's a horrid business - but it's business. It'll never stop, not in our lifetimes, and everyone who steps down from it will get replaced by the next hired killer.

It is a grim world out there, where you either do or get done. And we? Well, we're not done.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.