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Broadsword empire pod killer - How is it possible??
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Man Milk
Ugly Duckling Inc
#21 - 2011-12-29 04:28:15 UTC
Well, did tha person writing ths post see any fancy pretty lights or anyone else flashing red on screen? I'm guessing not but you'll have to ask them. So cynical.. :(

'Fail we may. Sail we must.'
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#22 - 2011-12-29 04:35:01 UTC
Did you know that spamming the warp button actually tends to prevent you from warping off?

Tip: don't press warp more than once a second.
Man Milk
Ugly Duckling Inc
#23 - 2011-12-29 04:42:27 UTC
Or don't spam warp at all. Autopilot is the best form of transport during a hi sec war dec. And make sure you don't rename your ship. It's the best way to scare off any would be aggressors... ;D

'Fail we may. Sail we must.'
Lunarra
Enslave.
#24 - 2011-12-29 19:54:40 UTC
Man Milk wrote:
No remote sensor boosting alts. You have any idea how many pods/cloakies are targeted with no more than a muttering of "arse" "almost" or "poop"? Every now and again a get tha jackpot. There's no magic. It's 50/50, ya get tha lock, ya don't get tha lock. It's all fun tho, only a game, for every kill there's a load more ya miss. Hi 5's for taking it in ya stride and not rage quiting. Hopefully see ya around with some nice loots for Sexy. Time. to scoop up. :)


Hope to see you around too for some revenge :)


For those who apparently didn't get it, there wasn't a bubble up since it was in empire :)

For other, sorry but no, didn't have any implants :p

For the last ones, no tears here, just wanted to know how it was possible and I got my answer!
Man Milk
Ugly Duckling Inc
#25 - 2012-02-28 05:15:41 UTC
Being in a fleet with fleet boosting leadership skill trained to level 5 also gives a nice bonus to fleet scan resolution by the way.
Not giving away secrets, it's just a deep game with much to learn so if this helps players old or new it's all good.
High 5's for Eve, she's a ***** but we all keep coming back for more! :D

'Fail we may. Sail we must.'
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#26 - 2012-02-28 05:42:23 UTC
From an empty ship the OP should have ejected.

I recall a post from way back where somebody described everything in this game as happening down to a time unit if one second. So if it take you a second to go into warp an an opponent a second to lock you, it's roughly a 50/50 thing if not reliant on who clicked what first.

That post was in a thread started by someone who lost a Tech 3 ship to being instalocked at a gate. So even a Tech 3 can be caught with a sensor-boosting arrangement.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#27 - 2012-02-28 05:43:50 UTC
From experience, a HIC pilot from the UK can point a pod or a frigate before it even appears on his Australian corpmates' screens.

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
Taipion
Adeptus Petrous
#28 - 2012-02-28 06:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Taipion
Lunarra wrote:
Milo Caman wrote:
Yeah, if HICs/Lokis/Whatevers fit enough SeBos and there's not much lag, they can indeed lock pods before they warp.


Alara IonStorm wrote:
Probably had a whole bunch of Remote Sensor Boosters on him. You can get lock time down too about 1.4 seconds on a Broadsword if you poor on the Rebo's


Even if we've been spamming warp before the ship destruction? I never had any issues with this well known pod saving tactic in 6 years of game. I thought that was making pod warp pretty much instant after destruction.
me neither, except once there was that bunch of intis on my ass, and a little lagg...



Ok, to clear this up, maybe soneone from CCP can confirm or disclaim this:

Order of things happening:

1.) Ships explodes
2.) Pod spawns

3.) Server notifies Pod-owner and aggressor simultaniously that there is now a pod and no ship
(delay equals Ping of the respective player)

4.a.) Pod-owner klicks "warp" (has been klicking frenetically at least twice a second all along)
4.b.) Aggressor klicks the Pod ( to lock and then point in the moment the lock is active)
(delay equals each pilots individual reaction time)

5.a.) Pod-owner sends "i do wanna warp" to the server
5.b.) Aggressor sends "i do wann lockit" to the server
(delay equals Ping of the respective player, again)

6.) Server processes "warp" and "lock" requests according to the times of when the information was recieved, not sent

(assuming Pod warps instant = 0,0 seconds)

=> Real Lock Time = ( Lock Time - (Your Ping - Enemy Ping) * 2 - (Your Reaction Time - Enemy Reaction Time) )
=> to survive, Lock Time - ( Your Ping - EnemyPing) * 2 - (Your Reaction Time - Enemy Reaction Time) ) must be above zero :D

Assuming you click "warp" twice a second, Your average reaction time would be 0,25 Seconds.
Assuming the Enemy has insane Luck and/or insame Skills, we just assume 0,1 Seconds here.
Lets further assume therese a slight, but not really noticable lagg on you side, we assume 150 ms = 0,15 Seconds here.
For the Enemy we assume a standard connection with a Ping of just about 50 ms = 0,05 Seconds.

(Pod warps instant = 0) 0 > Lock Time - (0,15 - 0,05) * 2 - (0,25 - 0,1)
<=> Lock Time < 0,35
=> Lock Time needs to be below 0,35 seconds to get the Pod.

Now that 0,1 seconds is acutally no realistic reaction time, more accurate would be 0,3 but lets just say 0,2 (=1/5) and,
You might klickt faster than twice a second, lets say every 2/5 seconds, for some simple numbers.
(average reaction time would be 1/5 seconds then)
Lets see how the Ping plays out in this case.

Then:

0 > Lock Time - (YourPing - EnemyPing) * 2 - (0,2 - 0,2)
<=> Lock Time < (Your Ping - Enemy Ping)*2
<=> Your Ping > (Lock Time)/2 + Enemy Ping

This means, your Ping must be at least as high as Your enemys plus half his locktime, would be something between 500 and 2000 in most cases.

And one usually has a ping below 500, so therefore the Pod is safe.
And as well, this proves: Lagg Kills! Lol
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#29 - 2012-02-28 06:30:21 UTC
Don't forget, the overview now updates more quickly than it used to. Smile

Likely a contributing factor.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Taipion
Adeptus Petrous
#30 - 2012-02-28 06:33:58 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Don't forget, the overview now updates more quickly than it used to. Smile

Likely a contributing factor.

apllied equally on both sides => 1-1=0 => does not matter P
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#31 - 2012-02-28 06:43:58 UTC
Taipion wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Don't forget, the overview now updates more quickly than it used to. Smile

Likely a contributing factor.

apllied equally on both sides => 1-1=0 => does not matter P


I wasn't disputing your math, but the fact remains that if your overview now updates a second or so quicker you now have a better chance of targeting the pod after ship destruction.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Taipion
Adeptus Petrous
#32 - 2012-02-28 07:04:10 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Taipion wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Don't forget, the overview now updates more quickly than it used to. Smile

Likely a contributing factor.

apllied equally on both sides => 1-1=0 => does not matter P


I wasn't disputing your math, but the fact remains that if your overview now updates a second or so quicker you now have a better chance of targeting the pod after ship destruction.


I was not defending my math P, and you are actually right, I thought of the update of data in general... but yes, the overview is updated faster now, which, on avarage, increases chances of getting a Pod (or whatever Ship).

Though this only changes the chances (slightly), not what is possible, even before, there was quite a good chance that the overview updates within the pilots reaction time, and thereby causing no additional delay.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#33 - 2012-02-28 07:53:42 UTC
Lunarra wrote:
Hi everyone,

How is it possible to fit a broadsword that can kill pods in epire during wars?

...

I want to know how is that possible.

Thanks for your help!


Every "new" phenomenon (or old phenomenon too, when they return being trendy) spreads out into common knowledge and gets spammed possibly till CCP nerfs it.

Once you'd see lots of 'canes, tempests, thrashers parked at every bottleneck hi sec gate.
These days you'll see lots of Lokis. They are there to boost. Because that's today's hot shiz.



Ranger 1 wrote:
Don't forget, the overview now updates more quickly than it used to. Smile

Likely a contributing factor.


I posted several times (one being here) how overview locking is slower than direct lock.

Making overview refresh faster, enabled people formerly uncapable of quickly lock other players into being able to.
That's called "making a niche ability (manual locking without using overview) mainstream".
Once something becomes mainstream people will abuse of it till a nerf.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Stonecold Steve
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#34 - 2012-02-28 13:15:55 UTC
rodyas wrote:
There was a thread over this pod not warping instantly earlier. Some said those commands spammed cause the server to lag out and wont happen as fast as you had hoped or something. Maybe you can go back and find it.


^ that, had the same thing. Who cares, just a ****** pod.

“Hasta la muerte, todo es vida.”
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#35 - 2012-02-28 23:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Lunarra wrote:
Milo Caman wrote:
Yeah, if HICs/Lokis/Whatevers fit enough SeBos and there's not much lag, they can indeed lock pods before they warp.


Alara IonStorm wrote:
Probably had a whole bunch of Remote Sensor Boosters on him. You can get lock time down too about 1.4 seconds on a Broadsword if you poor on the Rebo's


Even if we've been spamming warp before the ship destruction? I never had any issues with this well known pod saving tactic in 6 years of game. I thought that was making pod warp pretty much instant after destruction.



Thats how it used to work for everyone.

Since the incarna release there were allot of people - myself included who could no longer reliably use that method.

After the incursions release I have had pods locked by all sorts of ships. There is either something wrong with my computer or something changed in the game.


I have asked ccp Diagoras to give some statistics about this here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=65469&p=5


It should be interesting to see what the data shows.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#36 - 2012-02-29 00:07:17 UTC
That's what you get for not flying a proper ship.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#37 - 2012-02-29 15:09:57 UTC

I think the problem with your analysis is if you are spamming warp consistantly through the time your ship is blown up then the server should be receiving your requests about 2xs per second regardless of your lag. (Unless your lag grows from the time you start spamming the warp out.) So if you have some lag then the warp out that you sent while you thought your ship was still there should be a pod warp out request instead.

Now if it was a ship when you hit the warp out and during the time of the lag it became a pod that might be a problem. I would like to know if the warp ship out command is different than the warp pod command. But even there. Your next command to warp out will still come less than a second later and that would be the warp pod command.

Plus I believe a dev once posted that the server works in one second incriments. If 2 commands (eg. your warp out command end the enemies warp scramble command) come in the same second then the warp out command takes precedence.

That is how it used to work and that is why the game worked reliably before incarna. After incarna the game seems unreliable.

We have seen gms in other threads saying not to spam any buttons. Which would be a major change in how this works.

But anyway I agree with you that it would be nice if ccp explained what happened and how the mechanics now work. This must be the 5th thread on this issue since incarna came out - plus I know allot of people who fly in low sec and don't use expensive implants anymore.


Taipion wrote:
Lunarra wrote:
Milo Caman wrote:
Yeah, if HICs/Lokis/Whatevers fit enough SeBos and there's not much lag, they can indeed lock pods before they warp.


Alara IonStorm wrote:
Probably had a whole bunch of Remote Sensor Boosters on him. You can get lock time down too about 1.4 seconds on a Broadsword if you poor on the Rebo's


Even if we've been spamming warp before the ship destruction? I never had any issues with this well known pod saving tactic in 6 years of game. I thought that was making pod warp pretty much instant after destruction.
me neither, except once there was that bunch of intis on my ass, and a little lagg...



Ok, to clear this up, maybe soneone from CCP can confirm or disclaim this:

Order of things happening:

1.) Ships explodes
2.) Pod spawns

3.) Server notifies Pod-owner and aggressor simultaniously that there is now a pod and no ship
(delay equals Ping of the respective player)

4.a.) Pod-owner klicks "warp" (has been klicking frenetically at least twice a second all along)
4.b.) Aggressor klicks the Pod ( to lock and then point in the moment the lock is active)
(delay equals each pilots individual reaction time)

5.a.) Pod-owner sends "i do wanna warp" to the server
5.b.) Aggressor sends "i do wann lockit" to the server
(delay equals Ping of the respective player, again)

6.) Server processes "warp" and "lock" requests according to the times of when the information was recieved, not sent

(assuming Pod warps instant = 0,0 seconds)

=> Real Lock Time = ( Lock Time - (Your Ping - Enemy Ping) * 2 - (Your Reaction Time - Enemy Reaction Time) )
=> to survive, Lock Time - ( Your Ping - EnemyPing) * 2 - (Your Reaction Time - Enemy Reaction Time) ) must be above zero :D

Assuming you click "warp" twice a second, Your average reaction time would be 0,25 Seconds.
Assuming the Enemy has insane Luck and/or insame Skills, we just assume 0,1 Seconds here.
Lets further assume therese a slight, but not really noticable lagg on you side, we assume 150 ms = 0,15 Seconds here.
For the Enemy we assume a standard connection with a Ping of just about 50 ms = 0,05 Seconds.

(Pod warps instant = 0) 0 > Lock Time - (0,15 - 0,05) * 2 - (0,25 - 0,1)
<=> Lock Time < 0,35
=> Lock Time needs to be below 0,35 seconds to get the Pod.

Now that 0,1 seconds is acutally no realistic reaction time, more accurate would be 0,3 but lets just say 0,2 (=1/5) and,
You might klickt faster than twice a second, lets say every 2/5 seconds, for some simple numbers.
(average reaction time would be 1/5 seconds then)
Lets see how the Ping plays out in this case.

Then:

0 > Lock Time - (YourPing - EnemyPing) * 2 - (0,2 - 0,2)
<=> Lock Time < (Your Ping - Enemy Ping)*2
<=> Your Ping > (Lock Time)/2 + Enemy Ping

This means, your Ping must be at least as high as Your enemys plus half his locktime, would be something between 500 and 2000 in most cases.

And one usually has a ping below 500, so therefore the Pod is safe.
And as well, this proves: Lagg Kills! Lol

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Orator de Umbras
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-02-29 18:10:37 UTC
I had a weird occurrence once. . . .

My ship got blown up in low-sec and I was able to warp my pod out and jump through the next gate.

I checked my loss mails . . . and my pod was listed as a loss.

Petition with GM confirmed that the logs did indeed show I had lost my pod, but that I still had my pod, clone, and implants. I was asked to file a bug report. (-_-)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#39 - 2012-03-02 22:59:59 UTC
Orator de Umbras wrote:
I had a weird occurrence once. . . .

My ship got blown up in low-sec and I was able to warp my pod out and jump through the next gate.

I checked my loss mails . . . and my pod was listed as a loss.

Petition with GM confirmed that the logs did indeed show I had lost my pod, but that I still had my pod, clone, and implants. I was asked to file a bug report. (-_-)



One time my ship wouldn't dock even though aggression timer elapsed. I watched the vollies cut throught he armor then the hull as i spam the dock button. So I figured I would save my pod and started to try to warp to a distant celestial - but this was sort of late.

Well next thing I see is I am in a pod in a station. But I had all my implants! I wasn't in my clone bay station but the station I was originally trying to dock my ship in! The thing is there should have been a session timer that prevented me from docking my pod there. Very odd.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#40 - 2012-03-08 15:01:16 UTC
BTW here is one of several other threads that brought this issue up since incarna.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=42787

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815