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GCC and no more refitting in hisec space [Carnyx]

First post
Author
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2015-06-01 14:02:28 UTC
Magnus Roden wrote:
All that happened is that solo miners, for the most part, stopped jetcanning and just fly back and forth with their increased oreholds. Mining OPs still use cans in many cases as they tend to feel safe these days (can flipping is "dead", remember) and increase their distance from the Orca. Warp in, position yourself between the Orca and Exhumer, watch the Orca frantically pulling in the ore, switch it as it passes you. Done. It's not very difficult if you know what you're doing. Increased defences on the mining ships don't help when it comes to combat but for a well prepared flipper this really isn't a problem.

People stopped can flipping because the engagement is now less controlled (not just corp only) and this scares a lot of people but they won't say that of course, instead they'll mutter some other excuses. Personally I'm not a fan of those crimewatch changes because there's even less need for miners to be in a corp but it doesn't really stop can flipping. Have more scouts, be a bit more careful about which systems you use and simply accept the increased risk.

And that, of course, is the main issue: increased risk. For all the huffing and puffing fierce pvpers and gankers (myself not excluded of course, although in a different manner) do they are no less risk averse than the truest carebear, that's why you hide in hilariously huge coalitions and that is why you create alts to shoot people who don't shoot back. Any other explanation, excuse or "for the betterment of the game" is just smoke and mirrors, perhaps even to yourself.

Can flipping still works fine, it's just less easy than it was before but on the other hand you also have less competition and less miners being used to it. So, you're wrong on that. AND you're wrong on ransoming as well, it still works if you do it right and pick the right targets.

Yet again you are ignorant of game mechanics.

If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue.
Its free for anyone to take from at that point.
So yes can flipping was killed.

Dude seriously learn the game mechanics
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2015-06-01 14:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Frostys Virpio wrote:
So beside the already too common rambling about ganking being good/bad/broken/fine/..., did anything come up as reasons for this change beside canning expensive items before you go pop?


stoicfaux explained to us that the change is likely meant to address a situation where a character on GCC uses a Citadel's invulnerability link/refitting services.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#203 - 2015-06-01 15:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Magnus Roden wrote:


Ah yes, so you friend everyone in 0.0 meaning you don't have to fight anyone of consequence and then you go to high sec to shoot people who don't shoot back.

Duly noted.


Tell me more about how the 95% of EVEs population we have as shoot on sight are "friends".
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#204 - 2015-06-01 15:17:01 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue.
Its free for anyone to take from at that point.
So yes can flipping was killed.


Not to defend an idiotic argument, but it's still possible with two people. If capsuleer A jets say 1 trit and capsuleer B moves the contents of the miner's can to this new can, the can remains the property of capsuleer A and does not turn blue, while capsuleer B gets the suspect flag.
Magnus Roden
Center for the Advancement of Human Endeavour
#205 - 2015-06-01 15:39:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Magnus Roden
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue.
Its free for anyone to take from at that point.
So yes can flipping was killed.

Dude seriously learn the game mechanics



There's various ways to make that work. Didn't think that would need explaining.

Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.

Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2015-06-01 15:50:43 UTC
Magnus Roden wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue.
Its free for anyone to take from at that point.
So yes can flipping was killed.

Dude seriously learn the game mechanics



There's various ways to make that work.

You are so full of it and obviously have not flipped cans for years.

Please tell me how you take one alt and flip the exumer can MID TRACTOR PULL then have an alt take the blue can and put it in his own. If there is a mobile tractor unit itll take in the blue can immediately.

Please describe your "various ways"

Oh you cant cuz you dont know what you are talking about.

You understamd how fast a tractor pulls in a can?? Freaking fast dude


Its okay for you to have your opinion that gankers are bad but dont try to say you know what you are talking about from your experience.


Please describe "various ways"
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2015-06-01 15:53:46 UTC
Hell i have found just flipping the can and turninf it blue then just lol-popping it tends to make the bears angry enough to agress you mpre often then some double alt can hotswap in under 2seconds.


Just steal ore and lolpop the can and talk trash.


Yes there are ways, but yes theu have been severely restricted after crimewatch to save the bares
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2015-06-01 16:01:37 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue.
Its free for anyone to take from at that point.
So yes can flipping was killed.


Not to defend an idiotic argument, but it's still possible with two people. If capsuleer A jets say 1 trit and capsuleer B moves the contents of the miner's can to this new can, the can remains the property of capsuleer A and does not turn blue, while capsuleer B gets the suspect flag.

Bears cry to get game mechanics changed and nerfed.
"Bad guys" just well damn, and then figure out new ways to make the nerfed mechanics work for them again.

Why can the bears just fogure out how to protect themselves and use mechanics for themselves like the "bad guys" always do?

Every time there is a nerf cuz bears cried, the bad guys adapt and overcome and still blow up the bears.

Guess the "bad guys" are just harder working and smarter
Magnus Roden
Center for the Advancement of Human Endeavour
#209 - 2015-06-01 16:09:41 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
You understamd how fast a tractor pulls in a can?? Freaking fast dude


approach Orca
from there approach to Exhumer(s) with cans out so that you move 3-4km away form orca
drop Can
open can window
wait for the tractored can to get into grab range
open it
swipe to other window
If not full and there's more cans on the way, repeat
if full or no cans left, destroy your can

Nothing pisses a miner off more than a can of ore you destroyed. It's really not difficult.

Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.

Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#210 - 2015-06-01 16:41:25 UTC
Magnus Roden wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
You understamd how fast a tractor pulls in a can?? Freaking fast dude


approach Orca
from there approach to Exhumer(s) with cans out so that you move 3-4km away form orca
drop Can
open can window
wait for the tractored can to get into grab range
open it
swipe to other window
If not full and there's more cans on the way, repeat
if full or no cans left, destroy your can

Nothing pisses a miner off more than a can of ore you destroyed. It's really not difficult.

Except if you then tell him to pay you 10mil for a mining permit and praise James, that really ticks them off.
Magnus Roden
Center for the Advancement of Human Endeavour
#211 - 2015-06-01 16:50:07 UTC
Touché

Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.

Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#212 - 2015-06-01 16:56:51 UTC
I can only think at this point that you deliberately derailed this thread in order to get it locked by ISD.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#213 - 2015-06-01 16:58:58 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Please tell me how you take one alt and flip the exumer can MID TRACTOR PULL then have an alt take the blue can and put it in his own. If there is a mobile tractor unit itll take in the blue can immediately.

1. Drop your own tractor
2. Flip all but 1 unit to your own can
3. Watch as your tractor pulls in the blue can while his pulls in the 1 last unit from his can.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#214 - 2015-06-01 18:20:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue.
Its free for anyone to take from at that point.
So yes can flipping was killed.


Not to defend an idiotic argument, but it's still possible with two people. If capsuleer A jets say 1 trit and capsuleer B moves the contents of the miner's can to this new can, the can remains the property of capsuleer A and does not turn blue, while capsuleer B gets the suspect flag.

Bears cry to get game mechanics changed and nerfed.
"Bad guys" just well damn, and then figure out new ways to make the nerfed mechanics work for them again.

Why can the bears just fogure out how to protect themselves and use mechanics for themselves like the "bad guys" always do?

Every time there is a nerf cuz bears cried, the bad guys adapt and overcome and still blow up the bears.

Guess the "bad guys" are just harder working and smarter


It's a matter of human natures clashing.

The "carebear" is the type of person who , when confronted with a situation, runs to someone else for a solution. You can see this behavior in kids when confronted by a bully, the ones who fight back don't get bullied anymore, the ones who run to a teacher to get the bully "in trouble" ends up getting it worse down the line (because he just signaled to everyone that he's not only a good bully target, he's a snitch as well, making himself even more enemies) than if he's just fought back and risked a one time ass whopping (for then at least he'd have gained the respect of a few people instead of making a bunch of enemies).

"Bad Guys" are people who look for an advantage, ANY advantage they can exploit, so it doesn't matter what rules or mechanics you change in game (or laws you change or prisons you build in real life), someone is always going to be trying to figure out the best way to get past that to get what they want. Carebears don't understand this because they don't think this way, so they keep thinking they are winning when CCP adds things like safeties and buffed exhumers and anchor rigs when in fact none of that stuff even helps, because the problem wasn't game mechanics, it was the basic nature of carebears that 'bad guys' love to exploit.

The 'cure' for bad guys isn't ccp intervention (that just makes it worse) is what 10s of thousands of us do every day and night in this game: understanding the bad guys and flying/acting in a way that discourages them from even trying us. in 8 years of playing EVE I've lost exactly 2 shuttles and 100 million isk to "bad guys" (the 2 shuttles were empty and I was afking, the 100 mil I lost to a scam where I bought a t1 hauler for the wrong price because of how I had my market window set, chalk it up to me being in a hurry and stupid).

Mix those two types (bad guys and carebears) together and you get...EVE Online lol.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2015-06-01 18:35:14 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
If you "flip a can" you go suspect and the can turns blue.
Its free for anyone to take from at that point.
So yes can flipping was killed.


Not to defend an idiotic argument, but it's still possible with two people. If capsuleer A jets say 1 trit and capsuleer B moves the contents of the miner's can to this new can, the can remains the property of capsuleer A and does not turn blue, while capsuleer B gets the suspect flag.

Bears cry to get game mechanics changed and nerfed.
"Bad guys" just well damn, and then figure out new ways to make the nerfed mechanics work for them again.

Why can the bears just fogure out how to protect themselves and use mechanics for themselves like the "bad guys" always do?

Every time there is a nerf cuz bears cried, the bad guys adapt and overcome and still blow up the bears.

Guess the "bad guys" are just harder working and smarter

Don't Feyd and Kaarous hate you already? Why you offending them again? Sad

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"