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QEX and renting business.

Author
Krios Arody
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-06-01 08:43:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Krios Arody
Just to clear the comms and provide the facts. I translated the leaked QEX alliance meeting suncloud that took place 30.4.2015

Original can be listened here:

Suncloud

The whole thing as plain text:

PasteBin

Discussion on reddit:

Reddit

Translation:

MaxDEL:
Well, we’ll start the meeting that we have at the end of every month, despite all. I could say well connect the dots and enlighten those who don’t know about the events. Shortly there is nothing to discuss. We flew, we shot people and we died. Well we died little this month, which is nice.

About the problem that appeared yesterday. The account of Draegg, who had director access, was accessed by someone. The same someone who did Vlad. This someone flew to Sobaseki and stole all the assets that were stored there. He traded his other account and that’s it. The password of Draegg was naturally changed immediately, by recovering the account and we checked from what IP the login was made. Dude who received the transfer and who logged into Draeggs account had a matching ip to the one who cleared Vlad. The IP was exactly the same. The account was the same.
This proves two things. Either it was an entity that dislikes us strongly and is very butthurt about some old childish hurt feelings and still faps around. Or someone sits on a computer that periodically passwords are copied to. Through a misshap the bad guy has access there.

But today we will not talk about how can we fight this or how can we avoid these situations. What can we do so this won’t happen again? This is dumb and unnecessary because we have talked about this million times.
For those who don’t understand what the assets stolen worth 500B comprised of:
- about 2000 T3 hulls
- couple thousands of subsystems (all that were build by me during my stay in WH)
- a pile of faction modules
- a pile of capital modules (a pile of everything that has been assimilated during this time)
- fully fitted ships, about 1000 pieces
- all the T2 modules (about 50B)
- ammo (about 100B)
Sums are quite substantial for a small corporation like us. Petition to CCP was written and process has started. There is some head GM reviewing the case, that is freezing. If these assets are not returned, I am quitting EVE. Because I don’t want to think about that 7-8 years of EVE were given to some ******.

Enough about me and the assets. This situation shows that we need new leadership, that will take over the operations. The mistakes made by current leadership are mostly my fault. I consider the theft also my fault, because I forgot something and gave the password to someone. I gave the password to someone untrustworthy and forgot about it and so on. These were all my mistakes and I just can’t track everything.

Because of this the point of this meeting is to find a new leader that has been checked by me and takes over the control of the corporation. This is not some FC position but a position to fulfill all the invisible responsibilities that I have been carrying out. People just don’t understand what it means. This is about all I can tell.

To sum up. If assets are not returned by CCP I quit eve. I give out the remaining assets (all that you see here in system) and the small corp wallet to members and wish you good luck. If you find a leader I give everything to him. Also our great alliance W-Space Citizen that you can take also control over. Solve their problems while controlling this corporation (not necessarily the same person). You can just rule them and collect taxes and pay HardKnocks and Lazerhawks for mercenary services. If someone wants to control the Krab alliance you are welcome. Previous rulers did not cope with their duties. This is about all I wanted to say today.

HicksNT:
Did you say everything? Listen to me carefully. There won’t be another like you MaxDEL. No-one here can run the corp like you do. No-one will take that responsibility. Even if someone takes it nothing will come out of it. This is an absolute fact.
CCP won’t return the assets. 101% sure about this. My two reasons are: I have very little time. This is the main reason. The other reason is that I’m tired of EVE. For me this is not interesting anymore. I have tried everything but NullSec and that is not interesting to me. System is broken and mechanics are ****. Eve is not interesting for me. I can log in from time to time and shoot in some ops. This is fun. I just don’t want to handle **** in EVE that you handle. You handle **** very well. The errors and mistakes are learned from. The outcome is: No-one will not lead us better than you. If you quit EVE, everyone here will quit EVE. W-space will die with us leaving. It will be filled with Russian krabs. Maybe this is for the better maybe it is not. I can personally.. let me say that I don’t want QEX to die and its members spreading around.
Krios Arody
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-06-01 08:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Krios Arody
HicksNT:

Bloodunion went through this and this happened because of me. Because I dint give a fu*k anymore. You still give a fu*k. And you run things well. From my personal assets I can sponsor in cash about 200B isk and in assets like ships like T3, fu*k3 not many, but they are worth about 50-80B. I can finance corp with these assets and give them to you. With one condition, that the mistakes made will not be ignored and all the assets will be held by you on one or two accounts that only you have access to. You can still share the characters as you like but without assets. Continue leading the corporation. There is no other coalition like us. Well turn the w-space into a fu*king farm that will be farmed by the same lords instead of us. The same HardKnocks and Lazerhawks will take over. The Russian coalition will turn into bums that can only do anomalies. This is what will happened to w-space if you quit EVE. I already quit, but I will try from time to time to participate. Maybe I will take some diplo position and attend WH politics, but commanding this brotherhood of ****, no. I don’t have the nerves for that. I did that already.

MaxDEL:

I want to make something clear. All the members are very dear to me. Many of you I have known for a long time. Me quitting EVE is more about principle. It’s not about the assets.

HicksNT:

That’s not entirely true. To be left with only your shorts and need to krab till you **** a brick…

MaxDEL:

I tell this once again. It’s about crooked mechanics that don’t allow proper management of corporation. It is not even about the person that left..

HicksNT:

You can properly manage the corp. You just need to keep all the assets on two characters and under a iron lock. That’s it. Everyone else just fly over in pods and leave in ships.

MaxDEL:

Yea. Corp management is sitting giving out ships..

Unknown:

Max, sorry for interrupting. Assign an asset manager.

MaxDEL:

Let’s not talk about that. Assign an asset manager, recruiting manager, fleet commander etc.. This has been tried and this doesn’t work in Russian corporations.

HicksNT:

Why it doesn’t work. You have Funt for example.

MaxDEL:

Funt logs on in the evening. Who gives out ships before evening? Max. Who gives out ships after evening? Max. I assigned two people to manage W-Space citizens. One is somewhere and the other one quite EVE. I assigned hole managers. We moved from a system to another. These people dint even notice. This is a pointless conversation. And solving the games problems with assigning new directors is pointless. This is primitive.

HicksNT:

This is how it works in the real world.

Unknown:

There is another option. Sorry for interrupting again. If keeping the assets not in items but in isk and giving players ISK instead of ships.

MaxDEL:

This leads to situations where instead of 1600 plate people put in 800 plate. Instead of kinetic adaptive people put in a explosive. And so on.

HicksNT:

This is how I did it. I gave out ISK compensations.

MaxDEL:

We all remember the funny kill mails. All the assets that were stolen were not for me to feel like a magnate. They were stored so members could not use them properly. I don’t care if they would be on your accounts. Its just that 95% of EVE players don’t know how to fit a ship. They don’t understand what ammo to use against different targets. This is a member problem. This is why it all was stored there and was given out.

But concentrating only on the giving out.. I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to follow the doings of someone giving out the assets. That’s just stupid taking into account our stage of development.

I repeat. You are dear to me. I love you all. And I understand what will happen if I quit. And I repeat. If someone values what we have created and wants to take over be my guest. I will give total control. If not, well give this 3 day (after the holidays) well have another meeting 5th of May. If not by then then well remove posses, share the assets and ships. And its good bye! I just tired of this game. All that has happened has just pushed this. I was tired but nothing has interfered with me playing until now. What will I do from now on? I don’t know.

Maybe I will do what rest of the Russian community in W-space is doing: RMT. I really don’t have the need for that. Maybe something else. But directing a corporation with a rat in it. And I totally understand that it was I who gave this rat the password, but I don’t know who was it. Im tired of this.

HicksNT:

Fuc* EVE. Soon Shroud of Avatar will come out. EVE on land. Let’s play that.

MaxDEL:

We have played these games already when they removed W-space stats.

HicksNT:

So I understand. I disagree about passing the control. If we quit, we quit totally. Kick the members and freeze the ticker. I don’t QEX to be a herd of uncontrolled.. that’s not an option.

MaxDEL:

As I said. If someone wants to take over a corp that has a big name and was built from zero with blood and was killed by a rat.

HicksNT:

This wasn’t killed by a rat. You just got tired.

MaxDEL:

Yes Hicks I’m tired. I won’t play a game where 6 years of game can be stolen in one minute and developers are not doing
anything about it. This makes me angry.

HicksNT:

This is like real life. Assets are stolen and developers don’t do anything (laughter)

MaxDEL:
I understand that its like real life. There is a difference. People pay money to play this game. Well I have said everything. Don’t ask me to stay. Don’t tell me what to do.
Krios Arody
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-06-01 08:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Krios Arody
HicksNT:

You are at the same stage as I was. Just tired of doing everything yourself. And sharing responsibility is not an option. Except Funt. Funt was my number two. And then he had too little time. I had too little time. Mechanics are killed. WH was destroyed. Well lets be honest.. When can you find content? In US prime. Only HardKnocks. And statistics support this.

MaxDEL:

Hicks, I was fulfilling my aims and duties. This has carried this whole thing. So I have said everything. Does anyone else want to say anything? Don’t ask Max to stay. Assets are not returned I quit. How this will continue I don’t. My MMO rage will stop at some time.

HicksNT:

I have a proposition. Lets try one thing. I don’t know how you will react to this. Lets make one giant petition on the official forums. How many are there on right now? About 20-30. Everyone has 2-3 accounts. And Max has like 30 accounts. Maybe 100 accounts in total. Lets say that we will all quit EVE. If not totally for couple months at least. If you cant manage two months without EVE well still come to this TS and play something else.

Unknown:

Hicks blackmail wont work. They tell you to go to hell.

HicksNT:

Why wont it work? 100 accounts will cancel subscriptions.

Unknown:

If they will allow it once they will allow it again. Precedence. And 100 accounts from how many hundreds of thousands?

HicksNT:

What hundred thousands. 36k online max on weekend peak. Normally default is 12K-24K

Unknown:

There are about 150K paid accounts.

MaxDEL:

People, please. Don’t fill the coms with suggestions about collective petitions.

Unknown:

Mass petition once saved me from a lifetime ban. I was banned. Whole corporation petitioned CCP and account was reactivated.

HicksNT:

Max, if you need tips about RMT talk to him..

MaxDEL:

Ok. If they don’t return the assets in 24H we will send a mass petition: Please return our corp assets and cry.

HicksNT:

We have to wait until Monday. Tomorrow is 1st of May and that’s and holiday everywhere.

MaxDEL:

People this all is clear to me. On Monday any normal software developer will tell you that we don’t have this in logs. I work as an admin. That they will go over logs 3-4 days old is unlikely.

Unknown:

They will have some algorithms for gathering all information about specific action. They just want to want to do it.
Maybe even if they will return the assets the is a point in freezing the current ticker and quitting for couple of months. If you are really tired of eve.. (everyone talking at the same time)

MaxDEL:

Listen! So Bers say what you want to say.

Unknown(Bers):

I said what I wanted to say. Lets not talk about what we will do from now on. I will not lead QEX. If Max leaves, me and my boys are leaving QEX.

Unknown:

We need to freeze ticker anyway.

HicksNT:

Or QEX will suck gas with 20 ventures in the static. (laughs)

MaxDEL:

Ok, so if there are some good suggestions please do tell. Or some remarks.

HicksNT:

Lets drink some beer.

Unknown:

At least our plan for controlling all the C6 systems was very good.

MaxDEL:

They are practically all under our control. 30% of all the holes are under W-space citizens. Now it’s only a question of installing W-space citizen corps into the rest. Hardknocks and Lazerhawks won’t touch them.

Unknown:

Month or two they’ll take over the whole alliance.

MaxDEL:

This is normal. As I said before. There is no new leadership we disband. Assets are divided and byebye.

HicksNT:

Just wanted to say that all who are here and especially the new guys. Be proud. You flew and were a part of our two alliances. QEX and Blood Union. We have together won eve. We have squeezed every drop of content from this game. We dint fly Titans.

MaxDEL:

Speak for your self.

HicksNT:

Max the fuken Titan pilot (laughs). We put all of W-space on its knees and evicted everyone. We are paid 40B as tax. We have enslaved all the krabs. We punished the large corporations. Some bites we took were too large. We have done it all. Maybe its really time to stop playing EVE. There is nothing new. This game turns us into krabs that CCP caters to. For me this is not interesting. For me there is nothing interesting in eve. Dropping capitals on krabs? No thanks.

Unknown:

Just set a new target. Evict all the English speaking entities from W-space.

HicksNT:

There is no-one to evict.

MaxDEL:

Yes we can sit here and evict corps like Scary People. Problem is ni primes and that no-one, not even you will sit for days controlling things. Its gonna be me. You wont do that for three days straight.

HicksNT:

And shooting pos after pos like Star Bridge was doing. ****.. you all will quit after the second eviction. Seriously. Two evictions in a row and after the third one you’ll just fu*k off.

MaxDEL:

These mechanics suck. Even HK and Lazerhawks truced with Scary because after 3 day everyone were so tired of the evicition that they were ready to leave.

HicksNT:

Two years ago they started turning EVE from hardcore MMO RPG to a space sim. And this transformation will be done in a year. I have a dude at work. He hates pirates and pvp. But he is a fan of space. Little bit of mining and building stuff. I tell him to play space sims. Play Homeworld, Space Rangers. Why the fu*k you play EVE? Nope. Pirates and pvp are ****. This is the best space sim. End of story.

MaxDEL:

I had the same thoughts half my eve life. Well then lets end this meeting. Think about the leadership position. If no-one wants it then no.
Krios Arody
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-06-01 09:03:31 UTC
Unknown:

What do you mean with helping?

MaxDEL:

Being leadership. Not helping. Doing everything that I do.

HicksNT:

Ill tell you what that means. You log in 8am and scan down home system. Create the bookmarks. Scan down the chain and find all the K-space connections. You start collapsing the holes. You log in an Orca and a Moros and keep rolling them holes. You have at your disposal from 5-30 ppl at all times. They sit and wait for you to find something in the static. If you find something your job is to turn that something into a fight. Then you order everyone to press F1. After that you need to get everyone home taking into account the masses of holes so all the capitals will fit. If the hole collapses you have to scan a new route out and a route into home system, bring the stranded fleet back home and after that continue the rolling. That is like the bare minimum so that people stay interested. You have to do this every day. And preferably from 8am to 10pm. That’s about the minimum

MaxDEL:

Plus the constant logistics of ammo, ships and modules. Development of fits and strategy. Communicating with the f*cktards where to strike next.

HicksNT:

You have to live in EVE. I had a job where I could play eve all the time. After that job ended I started living totally in eve. Until CCP broke down mechanics and I found a new job, all I did was eve. After that it ended and I started a real life. Max has more time. He works with computers as admin. He can do his job and live in eve at the same time. If you have a job and family.. max also has a family but that hasn’t slowed him down. It will slow you down. If you want to run all this in EVE, you have to live in EVE. For 2-3 years all I did was wake up, turn on eve and the only breaks I took were to take a dump and eat and sometimes go somewhere over the weekend. And back to EVE. EVE is a life if you want to run a PVP alliance. If you want krab, shoot rocks or look at space then it’s a different story. 2-3h per day is enough. If you want to be good at pvp this has to be your life. That’s about it.

MaxDEL:
I think we have said all. Im stopping the recording.

---

So please no more of this crap about renters being a joke. Also whats up with this blatant violation of EULA (and confessing to it?)
TurboX3
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#5 - 2015-06-01 09:40:53 UTC  |  Edited by: TurboX3
What this says to me, is that MaxDEL is a very good, strong & passionate leader & cares about his corp / alliance & EVE.
But when playing this game for so long we all get to that stage... Have we done everything, is it time to quit?
Ridvanson
#6 - 2015-06-01 10:00:35 UTC
TurboX3 wrote:
What this says to me, is that MaxDEL is a very good, strong & passionate leader & cares about his corp / alliance & EVE.
But when playing this game for so long we all get to that stage... Have we done everything, is it time to quit?


I feel like CCP should ban the whole lot, make the decision easier on them. Sometimes that's what it takes.
Winthorp
#7 - 2015-06-01 10:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
That's a lot of words you put into this.

I give you 2/10 just for all the typing.
Nox52
Pterygopalatine
#8 - 2015-06-01 10:13:05 UTC
Own most of c6 space, wonders why there isn't much to shoot.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#9 - 2015-06-01 10:21:12 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
That's a lot of words you put into this.

I give you 2/10 just for all the typing.


Even if it's a troll that man has earned himself a whooping 20 Lol

Kerena Alabel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-06-01 10:26:14 UTC
Inst account sharing against the EULA?
Winthorp
#11 - 2015-06-01 10:30:03 UTC
Kerena Alabel wrote:
Inst account sharing against the EULA?


Well to be fair they have even recently hired people from within eve that are well known to account share.
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#12 - 2015-06-01 10:41:39 UTC
Kerena Alabel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-06-01 10:43:26 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Kerena Alabel wrote:
Inst account sharing against the EULA?


Well to be fair they have even recently hired people from within eve that are well known to account share.



This can be fixed by a program that flags accounts based on ip+mac address and a few other IT wizardry features. If two different people access the same account, its sent to a human for review. Before anyone cries about how impossible it would be to enforce, its actually not that impossible. Each computer has "fingerprints" it leaves in varying ways that servers can detect. And yes if done right it can compensate for people moving, new hardware etc. If two different Ip's with wildly differing geolocations are accessing the same account one right after the other and then back to the first Ip later, its a pretty good indicator of account sharing for example. This is easily solvable with technology.

Bring on the rage.
Samir Duran Xadi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2015-06-01 10:43:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Samir Duran Xadi
Krios Arody wrote:

MaxDEL:

Communicating with the f*cktards where to strike next.



I like how QEX value their allies Big smile

Krios Arody wrote:


HicksNT:

You have to live in EVE. I had a job where I could play eve all the time. After that job ended I started living totally in eve. Until CCP broke down mechanics and I found a new job, all I did was eve. After that it ended and I started a real life. Max has more time. He works with computers as admin. He can do his job and live in eve at the same time. If you have a job and family.. max also has a family but that hasn’t slowed him down. It will slow you down. If you want to run all this in EVE, you have to live in EVE. For 2-3 years all I did was wake up, turn on eve and the only breaks I took were to take a dump and eat and sometimes go somewhere over the weekend. And back to EVE. EVE is a life if you want to run a PVP alliance. If you want krab, shoot rocks or look at space then it’s a different story. 2-3h per day is enough. If you want to be good at pvp this has to be your life. That’s about it.

MaxDEL:
I think we have said all. Im stopping the recording.



The life of an elite WH pvper right there. Never before have I felt so proud to be a krab.
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#15 - 2015-06-01 10:55:12 UTC
Kerena Alabel wrote:
Inst account sharing against the EULA?


It's not only against the EULA but also against common sense. All this mumbo-jumo about someone holding a grudge and using a keylogger or having access to a computer passwords are periodically stored on etc.

In all likelihood the password was given freely to another person who turned out to be less reliable than intended. This has nothing to do with CCP having to fix corporate roles or such. It has everything to do with risk awareness and proper use of account info.
Blizzaro
Throw More Dots
Hard Knocks Citizens
#16 - 2015-06-01 10:55:26 UTC
Kerena Alabel wrote:
Winthorp wrote:
Kerena Alabel wrote:
Inst account sharing against the EULA?


Well to be fair they have even recently hired people from within eve that are well known to account share.



This can be fixed by a program that flags accounts based on ip+mac address and a few other IT wizardry features. If two different people access the same account, its sent to a human for review. Before anyone cries about how impossible it would be to enforce, its actually not that impossible. Each computer has "fingerprints" it leaves in varying ways that servers can detect. And yes if done right it can compensate for people moving, new hardware etc. If two different Ip's with wildly differing geolocations are accessing the same account one right after the other and then back to the first Ip later, its a pretty good indicator of account sharing for example. This is easily solvable with technology.

Bring on the rage.


Bring on the mass unsubs you mean
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#17 - 2015-06-01 10:58:57 UTC
Blizzaro wrote:
Kerena Alabel wrote:
Winthorp wrote:
Kerena Alabel wrote:
Inst account sharing against the EULA?


Well to be fair they have even recently hired people from within eve that are well known to account share.



This can be fixed by a program that flags accounts based on ip+mac address and a few other IT wizardry features. If two different people access the same account, its sent to a human for review. Before anyone cries about how impossible it would be to enforce, its actually not that impossible. Each computer has "fingerprints" it leaves in varying ways that servers can detect. And yes if done right it can compensate for people moving, new hardware etc. If two different Ip's with wildly differing geolocations are accessing the same account one right after the other and then back to the first Ip later, its a pretty good indicator of account sharing for example. This is easily solvable with technology.

Bring on the rage.


Bring on the mass unsubs you mean


Who cares, if everyone was sharing accounts, there would be a hell of a lot less running subscription. Why run my own cyno/scanning/boosting/whatever alt accounts, if I can just freely share them with my bros?
Krios Arody
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-06-01 11:08:06 UTC


Or the rent was late and some mercenary services were provided?
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#19 - 2015-06-01 11:16:05 UTC
Did you even look at the kill history?
Domania
NOMADS.
#20 - 2015-06-01 11:26:33 UTC
Cya
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