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New Structures, Sov Mechanics, and High Sec POS's

First post
Author
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#21 - 2015-05-29 16:16:25 UTC
At the current rate it will be a % drop out of the aurum store, like CSGO cases. Once CCP sees a way to squeeze revenue out of people they latch on to it, no matter if the feature is left out to dry and left to wither on the vine like so many others. Still waiting on that dev blog by the way...
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2015-05-29 16:27:02 UTC
Destoya wrote:
At the current rate it will be a % drop out of the aurum store, like CSGO cases. Once CCP sees a way to squeeze revenue out of people they latch on to it, no matter if the feature is left out to dry and left to wither on the vine like so many others. Still waiting on that dev blog by the way...


More like, how do we fairly monetise visual customisation of something that is usually a group asset. We've got some ideas, but maybe you have some good suggestions too?

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#23 - 2015-05-29 16:33:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Adriel Malakai
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Destoya wrote:
At the current rate it will be a % drop out of the aurum store, like CSGO cases. Once CCP sees a way to squeeze revenue out of people they latch on to it, no matter if the feature is left out to dry and left to wither on the vine like so many others. Still waiting on that dev blog by the way...


More like, how do we fairly monetise visual customisation of something that is usually a group asset. We've got some ideas, but maybe you have some good suggestions too?


Corp aurum wallet that members can donate to.

Frankly, I'm still surprised you guys didn't do this, then just charge people aurum to get an alliance logo, rather than have size/age requirements.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#24 - 2015-05-29 16:36:51 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
But yeah, your Hisec Pos gonna be vulnerable for EIGHTEEN hours a day


We have said this a few times but apologies if this has not been made clear, but we will not just copy-paste the new sov mechanics onto structures. There are a lot more variables to consider when we include high sec, small groups, wormholes etc. So the vulnerability of structures will be a lot more flexible than sov as we cannot expect people to be online every single day to defend their assets.

No Nullarbor, as I've said before the whole things is currently as clear as mud - the transition phase, what happens, when it happens. I was expecting a very detailed dev blog but its going to be too late now with the launch on Tuesday.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-05-29 16:41:16 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Destoya wrote:
At the current rate it will be a % drop out of the aurum store, like CSGO cases. Once CCP sees a way to squeeze revenue out of people they latch on to it, no matter if the feature is left out to dry and left to wither on the vine like so many others. Still waiting on that dev blog by the way...


More like, how do we fairly monetise visual customisation of something that is usually a group asset. We've got some ideas, but maybe you have some good suggestions too?

Um just dont try to monetize it at all??

Make it come from some drop bpc and cost isk on market.

We need a skins/monetize devblog asap so we can all get the true idea and goal on table.
You dont need to make $$ for everything.

An alliance wants a titan? They buy it with isk. They want a station? Buy it with isk. They want a pink station?? Only for RL Monies!

Thats wrong
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#26 - 2015-05-29 16:44:47 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
But yeah, your Hisec Pos gonna be vulnerable for EIGHTEEN hours a day


We have said this a few times but apologies if this has not been made clear, but we will not just copy-paste the new sov mechanics onto structures. There are a lot more variables to consider when we include high sec, small groups, wormholes etc. So the vulnerability of structures will be a lot more flexible than sov as we cannot expect people to be online every single day to defend their assets.

No Nullarbor, as I've said before the whole things is currently as clear as mud - the transition phase, what happens, when it happens. I was expecting a very detailed dev blog but its going to be too late now with the launch on Tuesday.


Whoa hold on there, there are no Citadels in the release on Tuesday, we are still a long way from new structures hitting Tranquility. We are just sharing our ideas with the community as early as possible so you get a chance to have your input before it is too late to change things.

Quoting from the devblog:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/shake-my-citadel/
Quote:
Please remember we still are at the beginning of the development process and many more Dev Blogs are due to come at a later date.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-05-29 16:47:00 UTC
In economics there are goods that are non - exclusive and non-rival.

Station skins are both guys.

The fact that Alliance X makes a pink station doesnt mean Alliance B cant have a pink or green station too.
Also anyone docking there can recieve the full benefit of going awwww look how cute.

A 1day old guy can fly to null and recieve the same satisfaction and same utility gained from it.

Its like a park made in a rundown section of town.
You think you should start charging people that walk by the park a fee?

And the freaking city/town/state builds the park. Its a public good.

You created the skins, put them in the game for free as drops and itll be a public good and individual alliances can find the drops and sell them according to demand/effort to obtain said drops.



And get us that devblog before any more monetization talk again.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#28 - 2015-05-29 17:00:57 UTC
Folks need to cool their jets. CCP just be sharing their outlines for stuff.

As far as sov indexes affecting hisec POSes/Citadels, I see no reason why some form of indexing can't be done. Standings? Local indy/military index? What about both? Say anyone anchoring in hisec gets some local bonuses. But good standings with the local faction can further reduce the window? In this way you get some nice hisec protection, and you can further benefit from upping your corp's standings.

This should save CCP programmers a lot of effort over having to come up with an entirely different set of requirements for hisec while also meeting the needs of hisec structure play.

And yes, I feel activating an Entosis Link on a structure in hisec should be considered an aggressive action. CONCORDOKKEN unless wardec.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#29 - 2015-05-29 17:04:57 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
But yeah, your Hisec Pos gonna be vulnerable for EIGHTEEN hours a day


We have said this a few times but apologies if this has not been made clear, but we will not just copy-paste the new sov mechanics onto structures. There are a lot more variables to consider when we include high sec, small groups, wormholes etc. So the vulnerability of structures will be a lot more flexible than sov as we cannot expect people to be online every single day to defend their assets.

No Nullarbor, as I've said before the whole things is currently as clear as mud - the transition phase, what happens, when it happens. I was expecting a very detailed dev blog but its going to be too late now with the launch on Tuesday.


Whoa hold on there, there are no Citadels in the release on Tuesday, we are still a long way from new structures hitting Tranquility. We are just sharing our ideas with the community as early as possible so you get a chance to have your input before it is too late to change things.

Quoting from the devblog:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/shake-my-citadel/
Quote:
Please remember we still are at the beginning of the development process and many more Dev Blogs are due to come at a later date.

From the patch notes:

Station Services
Station services for outposts and conquerable stations are now enabled/disabled using the Entosis Link module. They have become immune to regular damage.
The structures have been moved away from the center of station to more appropriate locations on the station model. Each type of station/outpost has a different layout of service locations.
Services will take 5 minutes of uncontested Entosis Link activation (after completing a warm-up cycle) to enable/disable. To provide a defensive bonus, the time take to disable a service is increased according to the solar system's occupancy multiplier (more details in the dev blogs linked above)
Activity Defense Multiplier
System Sovereignty Index values now combine to form a single Activity Defense Multiplier. In this release the multiplier modifies the time required to disable station services, and in future releases it will modify the time required to capture and reinforce sovereignty structures.
Activating an Entosis Link module will now trigger a Weapon Timer. This causes the normal penalties on the ship (cannot jump/dock or switch ships in space)
A director in an alliance’s executor corporation is now able to set a default alliance vulnerability time. Currently this has no effect, but will allows alliances to pre-set their timer in preparation for the next stage of sovereignty changes coming in AEGIS.


That is still a pretty big change there and the blogs so far have only covered it at a very high level. I was expecting that each phase of launch would be covered by a very detailed blog covering the specifics of said phase and what people need to know and expect. As I said - mud, clear as. Too late now.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#30 - 2015-05-29 17:10:23 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Nullarbor
Desert Ice78 wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
But yeah, your Hisec Pos gonna be vulnerable for EIGHTEEN hours a day


We have said this a few times but apologies if this has not been made clear, but we will not just copy-paste the new sov mechanics onto structures. There are a lot more variables to consider when we include high sec, small groups, wormholes etc. So the vulnerability of structures will be a lot more flexible than sov as we cannot expect people to be online every single day to defend their assets.

No Nullarbor, as I've said before the whole things is currently as clear as mud - the transition phase, what happens, when it happens. I was expecting a very detailed dev blog but its going to be too late now with the launch on Tuesday.


Whoa hold on there, there are no Citadels in the release on Tuesday, we are still a long way from new structures hitting Tranquility. We are just sharing our ideas with the community as early as possible so you get a chance to have your input before it is too late to change things.

Quoting from the devblog:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/shake-my-citadel/
Quote:
Please remember we still are at the beginning of the development process and many more Dev Blogs are due to come at a later date.

From the patch notes:

Station Services
Station services for outposts and conquerable stations are now enabled/disabled using the Entosis Link module. They have become immune to regular damage.
The structures have been moved away from the center of station to more appropriate locations on the station model. Each type of station/outpost has a different layout of service locations.
Services will take 5 minutes of uncontested Entosis Link activation (after completing a warm-up cycle) to enable/disable. To provide a defensive bonus, the time take to disable a service is increased according to the solar system's occupancy multiplier (more details in the dev blogs linked above)
Activity Defense Multiplier
System Sovereignty Index values now combine to form a single Activity Defense Multiplier. In this release the multiplier modifies the time required to disable station services, and in future releases it will modify the time required to capture and reinforce sovereignty structures.
Activating an Entosis Link module will now trigger a Weapon Timer. This causes the normal penalties on the ship (cannot jump/dock or switch ships in space)
A director in an alliance’s executor corporation is now able to set a default alliance vulnerability time. Currently this has no effect, but will allows alliances to pre-set their timer in preparation for the next stage of sovereignty changes coming in AEGIS.


That is still a pretty big change there and the blogs so far have only covered it at a very high level. I was expecting that each phase of launch would be covered by a very detailed blog covering the specifics of said phase and what people need to know and expect. As I said - mud, clear as. Too late now.


Ah you mean for the new sov system, not for Citadels.

This developer blog, and the ones that Fozzie links to at the top, should have you covered. I don't think you can complain about a lack of detail in them either, they are some of the largest developer blogs we have ever written. Fozzie is not a man of few words.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-2015-nullsec-and-sov-status-report/

Edit: The part titled "THE LATEST RELEASE SCHEDULE" has details about what is coming when.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#31 - 2015-05-29 17:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
Desert Ice78 wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:


We have said this a few times but apologies if this has not been made clear, but we will not just copy-paste the new sov mechanics onto structures. There are a lot more variables to consider when we include high sec, small groups, wormholes etc. So the vulnerability of structures will be a lot more flexible than sov as we cannot expect people to be online every single day to defend their assets.

No Nullarbor, as I've said before the whole things is currently as clear as mud - the transition phase, what happens, when it happens. I was expecting a very detailed dev blog but its going to be too late now with the launch on Tuesday.


Whoa hold on there, there are no Citadels in the release on Tuesday, we are still a long way from new structures hitting Tranquility. We are just sharing our ideas with the community as early as possible so you get a chance to have your input before it is too late to change things.

Quoting from the devblog:

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/shake-my-citadel/
Quote:
Please remember we still are at the beginning of the development process and many more Dev Blogs are due to come at a later date.

From the patch notes:

Station Services
Station services for outposts and conquerable stations are now enabled/disabled using the Entosis Link module. They have become immune to regular damage.
The structures have been moved away from the center of station to more appropriate locations on the station model. Each type of station/outpost has a different layout of service locations.
Services will take 5 minutes of uncontested Entosis Link activation (after completing a warm-up cycle) to enable/disable. To provide a defensive bonus, the time take to disable a service is increased according to the solar system's occupancy multiplier (more details in the dev blogs linked above)
Activity Defense Multiplier
System Sovereignty Index values now combine to form a single Activity Defense Multiplier. In this release the multiplier modifies the time required to disable station services, and in future releases it will modify the time required to capture and reinforce sovereignty structures.
Activating an Entosis Link module will now trigger a Weapon Timer. This causes the normal penalties on the ship (cannot jump/dock or switch ships in space)
A director in an alliance’s executor corporation is now able to set a default alliance vulnerability time. Currently this has no effect, but will allows alliances to pre-set their timer in preparation for the next stage of sovereignty changes coming in AEGIS.


That is still a pretty big change there and the blogs so far have only covered it at a very high level. I was expecting that each phase of launch would be covered by a very detailed blog covering the specifics of said phase and what people need to know and expect. As I said - mud, clear as. Too late now.



so what you are saying is.. you don;t read dev blogs? or forum post? or twitter? or slack? or listen to interviews? you missed hte huge threadnaught on the sov changes?

What you are talking about is JUST sov changes. what is coming out tuesday has no effect on current pos' and no new structures are coming. Outpost are changing, and the first phase of sov is what is coming tuesday. There is a TON of information on this. And has been for months. you are confusing Structures and fozzy sov.

A good quote: "a lack of perpetration on your part, doesn;t constitute and emergency on mine" its your responsibility to follow information as it comes, and on fozzy sov alone there is TONS.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#32 - 2015-05-29 18:13:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Desert Ice78
DaReaper wrote:

so what you are saying is.. you don;t read dev blogs? or forum post? or twitter? or slack? or listen to interviews? you missed hte huge threadnaught on the sov changes?

What you are talking about is JUST sov changes. what is coming out tuesday has no effect on current pos' and no new structures are coming. Outpost are changing, and the first phase of sov is what is coming tuesday. There is a TON of information on this. And has been for months. you are confusing Structures and fozzy sov.

A good quote: "a lack of perpetration on your part, doesn;t constitute and emergency on mine" its your responsibility to follow information as it comes, and on fozzy sov alone there is TONS.

I've read the dev blogs, and the forum posts. I believe what I said has covered the issue - clear as mud. I am however too lazy to find some stupid quote to reinforce my point, so whatever.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#33 - 2015-05-29 20:36:51 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Destoya wrote:
At the current rate it will be a % drop out of the aurum store, like CSGO cases. Once CCP sees a way to squeeze revenue out of people they latch on to it, no matter if the feature is left out to dry and left to wither on the vine like so many others. Still waiting on that dev blog by the way...


More like, how do we fairly monetise visual customisation of something that is usually a group asset. We've got some ideas, but maybe you have some good suggestions too?


Corp aurum wallet that members can donate to.

Frankly, I'm still surprised you guys didn't do this, then just charge people aurum to get an alliance logo, rather than have size/age requirements.


This is something CCP should take a look at implementing asap!
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#34 - 2015-05-29 20:42:01 UTC
ya know ccp nullabear really hit the grand slam on his "vision" of new structures. but that was just a bright point during fan fest as now we're in the age of fozzie-sov which is about to become a complete mess.

more and more when these devs speak I begin to look elsewhere to spend my money

im not buying into aurum,
im not spending cash for a skin
i'll spend cash for a plex though
but once you destroy my earnings cause of "gud fights" im joining many others in other games

your numbers are already dropping like bad habits.

is it really worth it all anymore?


just wait till the 1st station is lost and the 1st station gets blown up and the debacle ccp will be in trying to explain to everyone that is "fun".

cant wait to see them state 10k active players online is a good thing.. lol
Ashlar Maidstone
MoonFyre BattleGroup Holdings
#35 - 2015-05-29 22:07:29 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Folks need to cool their jets. CCP just be sharing their outlines for stuff.

As far as sov indexes affecting hisec POSes/Citadels, I see no reason why some form of indexing can't be done. Standings? Local indy/military index? What about both? Say anyone anchoring in hisec gets some local bonuses. But good standings with the local faction can further reduce the window? In this way you get some nice hisec protection, and you can further benefit from upping your corp's standings.

This should save CCP programmers a lot of effort over having to come up with an entirely different set of requirements for hisec while also meeting the needs of hisec structure play.

And yes, I feel activating an Entosis Link on a structure in hisec should be considered an aggressive action. CONCORDOKKEN unless wardec.


I agree with your closing statement, make using this Entosis link an act of aggression resulting in CONCORD showing up to hit the aggressor head on. also I agree as well this is all just speculations as to what the new structures and sov holdings will be in the future so you're right, people just need to BREATHE!
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#36 - 2015-05-31 19:20:27 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
ya know ccp nullabear really hit the grand slam on his "vision" of new structures. but that was just a bright point during fan fest as now we're in the age of fozzie-sov which is about to become a complete mess.

more and more when these devs speak I begin to look elsewhere to spend my money

im not buying into aurum,
im not spending cash for a skin
i'll spend cash for a plex though
but once you destroy my earnings cause of "gud fights" im joining many others in other games

your numbers are already dropping like bad habits.

is it really worth it all anymore?


just wait till the 1st station is lost and the 1st station gets blown up and the debacle ccp will be in trying to explain to everyone that is "fun".

cant wait to see them state 10k active players online is a good thing.. lol


i think you are confused... how is fozzy sov going to make your stuff blow up? Current;y in a pos, if its nuked i lose everything, this has been in since day one. New structure design will change this. As well when eventually outpost get replaced by XL structures (a long way off mind you) they are working on mechanics so you don;t lose your stuff. And A LOT of people, want to see everything in null be bale to go pop. So.. i think you are wrong. But meh, time will tell i guess. Just like a lot of people said the release cycles would be a failure, and well they aren't. So as i said, time will tell.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#37 - 2015-05-31 22:55:59 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
In economics there are goods that are non - exclusive and non-rival.

Station skins are both guys.

The fact that Alliance X makes a pink station doesnt mean Alliance B cant have a pink or green station too.
Also anyone docking there can recieve the full benefit of going awwww look how cute.

A 1day old guy can fly to null and recieve the same satisfaction and same utility gained from it.

Its like a park made in a rundown section of town.
You think you should start charging people that walk by the park a fee?

And the freaking city/town/state builds the park. Its a public good.

You created the skins, put them in the game for free as drops and itll be a public good and individual alliances can find the drops and sell them according to demand/effort to obtain said drops.



And get us that devblog before any more monetization talk again.

I think you're just trying to start **** about whatever issue you can find. First you were outraged on behalf of the highsec industrialists, then you were outraged because the highsec industrialists get "special treatment". And how that that's fallen through, you're outraged by CCP charging money for something that's purely aesthetic.

Guess what? An entrepreneurial 1 day player can buy a plex and sell it for isk. Or they can buy AUR and buy the skins and sell THOSE for isk. And there'll be a market for it. And he's not missing out on anything because he could also buy both those things with isk made in game. You seem to want people to think that these skins are only attainable by the people who buy it themselves. That's nowhere near the truth.

I don't think I'm going to take anything you say seriously anymore.
Arisidana
Amadari Traders
#38 - 2015-05-31 23:14:24 UTC
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:


I don't think I'm going to take anything you say seriously anymore.


That took you that long?
Tora Bushido
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#39 - 2015-06-01 10:24:39 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
And yes, I feel activating an Entosis Link on a structure in hisec should be considered an aggressive action. CONCORDOKKEN unless wardec.
I prefer instant war with Marmites. Twisted

If we only could apply to Concord, I would quit the whole war stuff.

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Anthar Thebess
#40 - 2015-06-01 11:49:22 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
But yeah, your Hisec Pos gonna be vulnerable for EIGHTEEN hours a day


We have said this a few times but apologies if this has not been made clear, but we will not just copy-paste the new sov mechanics onto structures. There are a lot more variables to consider when we include high sec, small groups, wormholes etc. So the vulnerability of structures will be a lot more flexible than sov as we cannot expect people to be online every single day to defend their assets.


Give us ability to input holiday table.
Sorry but if i can have almost a moth vacation in my work, don't force me to spend this time guarding stuff in new structures that CAN be destroyed.

I will not be able to say "f$#$@!ck ! This, i will just take this back when i will get back from vacations"

Remember that there are many cultures, and religions in this game.
Sometimes long holiday period for one group is at the same time normal day to day work for other people.

Don't brake NPC made stations , wherever they are located.
Even those conquerable in Sov space - those place will be "green" islands for casual eve players.
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