Player Features and Ideas Discussion

590,625 LP + 590,625,000 ISK + approximately 125m worth of implants = cost of High-Grade Slave Set

Just going with the Omega: currently selling in Jita for 989,880,000 ISK. To get an Omega, you need 267,750 LP + 267,750,000 ISK + 120m implant.

Which means that Sansha's LP is worth about 2230 ISK per LP.

Why? Slaves scale with links and remote reps.

Crystals don't.

I generally dont subscribe to "because its expensive it has to be good" ideas, I try not to let a ships cost determine whether or not it should be better or worse than it is in my opinions.

But slaves are the one time i disagree with that and believe they should be, not because of cost, because of the meta

Specifically the Armor VS Shield Meta and how it works

Armor is for raw Buffer, maximum long term staying power, slaves allow this on certain ships, especially supercapitals, capitals, and T3's. And i dont think this should be taken away.

I mean Look at crystal implants, fitting those to the right build can double your tank the same way the slaves double buffer, but nobody complains about crystals because of the meta and their lower volume of use, not to mention shield tanks can be nueted and come with higher sig radius blooms.

Just because something is popular dosn't mean it should be nerfed, so i respectfully disagree with you this time OP

As capital ships are so much larger and more expensive than subcaps, I believe all of the one-size-fits-all items that can grant large bonuses to capital ships should have their effect on capital ships reduced. This would include hardeners, electronics upgrades like sensor boosters, weapon upgrades such as tracking computers, and even implants. How much should the effects be reduced? Easy: just enough that a more reasonable-costing variant (one of the deadspace or other high-grade units) has the same bonus for capital ships as the tech 2 or lower grade cheap variants have for subcapital ships.


Some examples:

-25% effectiveness of Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane and Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Corelum B-Type EANM: 26.375% becomes 19.781% (T2 is 20%)
Pithum C-Type AIF: 40.625% becomes 30.469% (T2 is 30%)

-10% effectiveness of shield and armor hardeners because for some reason their deadspace counterparts are remarkably weak??
A-Type Armor or Pith A-Type Shield Hardener: 61.75% becomes 55.575% (T2 is 55%) or maybe deadspace hardeners could be buffed so the lower ones aren't complete junk. Then of course the overheat bonus would need tweaking so as to not make them overpowered when overheated. (For instance, if you overheat an X-type at 64%, it goes up to 76.8% which means the act of overheating it reduces incoming damage of that type by 35.556%. That is much higher than overheating a T1 AIF, for instance.)

-10% effectiveness of sensor boosters
Faction Sensor Booster: 32.5% becomes 29.25% (T2 is 30%)
Brynn's Modified Sensor Booster: 34.125% becomes 30.713% (T2 is 30%)

-25% damage mod on weapon upgrades
Brynn's Mag Stab, Brokara's Heat Sink, Mizuro's Gyrostab, Kaikka's BCS: 13.125% becomes 9.844% (T2 is 10%)

-35% armor hit points from slave implants
If my calculations are correct:
High Grade Slave Set: 45.256% becomes 29.416% (just under mid-grade)
Mid Grade Slave Set: 30.197% becomes 19.628% (just over low-grade)
Low Grade Slave Set: 18.668% becomes 12.134%

Again, supers and capitals without support are just sitting ducks.
No difference if people use slaves or not.

When super gets a fleet of RR carriers , EHP is not the issue but reps.
Implant meta shifted very much after giving supers ability to jump the gates.

Most of the super pilots are using Nomads or warp speed sets , as they are much more useful than slave set.
(of course if someone have armor super he will have at least 2 clones with proper implants , one for aligning/ warp speed second using slaves , but the slave set is only "in case of next B-R")

I know that PL have big super fleet, and in every big fleet engagement you need to have proper slave set on armor super, but when it comes to a single super usage , people prefer to move faster and be more agile , as when someone catch them, they are simply dead , and it does not matter if they have full slave set or no.

All sets are different.
Slave, Nomads, Crystals , etc are actually useful.
What we need is to put balance in others by creating new niche roles.

Slave : boosting ehp for armor ships - used mostly in PVP
Nomads : faster align for big ships ... those freighters warping of before frigate can lock and scan them.
Crystals : maxing your shield active tank on PVE or while putting your Vargur on top of bunch of noobs

I do believe that Slave implant set should not effect capitals, supers and titans. Just like the Crystal implant set doesn't. Doing that change would require CCP to adjust the raw armor numbers of the gallente and amarr ships, but I feel that would be the best way to address Slave implants and their effect on the meta. After all who flies an armor tanked super/titan without a slave implant set? Sucks they are basically forced into one implant set to be competitive.

Not really if you just go for a scrub T2 fit with scrub T1 CCC’s like most bad people do in eve on both ships then the shield one can overload its tank for a higher 4-5 min burst tank and the armor versions will tank less but are a bit more capstable if tanking for longer than one triage cycle. So pretty normal when you compare them to everything else.

Wyverns should not need slaves..... aeons don't NEED slaves 99% of the time ether. its just alot of big blocks would rather have max HP brink tanks as they normally always uses in big coalitions/Alliance Fleets so fitting any other implants would not make sense. shield on the other hand does not have this burden so you regularly see nomad implanted hels and rags and a few hyper max warp speed implanted stuff depending on what the pilot like to do in them.

Let’s make it so everything is the same as everything else and remove all roles specialities from everything and let everything be the same.

Yes a chim will cost more than an armor triage if you fit the armor triage to do something that shield ships do not excel at but then you could fit the shield in a way shield tanks excel at and the armor triage will be left behind/would need excessive isk to make it comparable to the shield one in that role.

That seems quite balanced to me.