EVE General Discussion

Yes we can use jabber Slack Fleet up etc. But it is a pain and mostly its a huge pain for the new people. Hence a bullient + calendar etc would make life easier while *not changing anything else at all about how eve is played by different groups*. as in you still have ppl in NPC corps. And for some reason that seems to be objection. The existence of NPC corps?

There is no Teamspeak/Mumble alternative in these proposals. Fleets are dead in the water without voice. Setting up Jabber or Slack once you've set up Teamspeak? Are we really arguing the 2-3 extra minutes are a challenge? The problem you *think* you're solving won't be solved. Getting people into Player Corps should be the explicit goal (and no, I don't mean the bittervet "get off my lawn" NPC Corpies).



The "objections" are twofold:

1. NPC Corps are fine, but being wardec immune isn't (see the npc corp thread to talk about it instead)

2. These proposals are watering down features of existing corps, which will make it difficult long term to get people into corps because of cannibalization by wardec-immune, asset/SOV-free entities that enjoy more or less the same mechanics as Player Corps.

So the problem you are saying with Corps is (or at least the perception):

1. Corps require commitment in time, day after day
2. Corps require intrusive APIs and other information in the application process
3. Corp loyalty is exclusive, instead of allowing a person access to a "social buffet"
4. Wardecs are broken

Why not address these 4 issues in Player Corps instead of making new constructs to compete with Corps?

This thread certainly has been entertaining. It also makes me miss seeing someone like Psychotic Monk arguing for the high sec shenanigans side of EVE. It would be nice to see someone make a cogent argument from that perspective again.

The social corp/UI layer stuff sounds cool. Though they really should have just called them clubs or associations from the start. Anything that will make it easier for individuals to play with others using in game tools will be great for casual players. And really they are just replicating third party tools but in the game.

This is based on my understanding that with this in place, I would be a member of Blue Republic as a corp, with deployable roles or abilities (however this turns out), tax, access to contracts and so on linked to my corp membership. But with membership in a number of different associations which give me access to their pool of shared fleet invites and fittings.

So I am assuming this means that if I was in an NPC corp, then I can deploy assets and so on as an NPC corp member, regardless of social corp/association/club membership.

The social corp lite, where people can re-badge a micro NPC corp with a name or what ever is interesting, and slightly problematic. However I think the reason is more because of the current state of full player corps. Personally I do not think these wardec immune corps will actually be that popular. After all, why would I decide to be in a corp with an NPC corp level of tax when I can just create a full player corp (or two) for myself and my alt with 0% tax and switch out of it if I get wardeced?

I doubt anyone with a one person corp would use those corp-lites instead. Ever.

And to me this is where we get to the biggest problem. There is simply no reason for most players to stay in a corp that has been wardecced and undock. None. POSes can be taken down, the corp can be held by an alt, and they can always drop to NPC, choose not to login or play on an alt.

At least to me, the most important change that needs to happen would be for it to be a rational choice for a player to fight for their corp. And this would be from creating more benefits for player corps. More reasons for them to exist, simply more stuff that is going to be at risk and actually be worth fighting for.

Advocating for more restrictions on NPC corps or more ways to 'punish' players for not playing the way you want them too won't change a thing. This has been done in the past and it seems to have had no impact. Given that this is a game, even if it does at some point force them to be in player corps during wardec or something, they can always chose not to login, play on an alt or just unsub.

There needs to be more carrots for player corps. Giant vulnerable carrots sitting in space. Though how this will work in reality remains to be seen, as high sec does seem to be over run with large swarms of rabbits...

There is and should be a place for a casual or solo style of play. The core of one of the problems at least is when that style of play is more lucrative or efficient at earning an income than playing in a corp with other players. If you can make the same amount of ISK or accomplish the same goals without the hassle, risk or cost of forming, joining, building and defending a player run corp, why bother? The problem isn't with casual players staying out of corporations, but rather more with dedicated players choosing to not join a corporation not because they don't want the commitment or social contact, but just because they make more ISK with less risk doing it solo.

Aoife above said it above quite well: player corps need a serious buff. Give players a real reason to be in and defend a wardeccable player corp and the concerns of most people here over societies would go away. Players who take on these risks and spend the time and resources to defend a corporation should benefit from that choice.

In that case I guess we still have a question: Why would a rational player chose to stay and be active in a corporation under a war dec?

You are right, no I wouldn't. Then the question becomes: Why would a player login and use a character under war dec rather than an alt or play a completely different game?

I don't know, how do players operate in lowsec or nullsec or wormholes where there are free aggression rules? Do players not make any income outside of hisec because other players are free to shoot them?

Are you saying a wardec is the end of the world? Being able to be shot by another player makes the game unplayable? Really?

No that is not what I am saying.

I guess the point I am working towards is that there needs to be an actual incentive for those who chose to play in high sec space to engage in combat when that is not the main reason they play the game.

I guess we can all agree that getting someone to do something that isn't their first choice is hard, especially when they can always just disappear for a week, without any real cost.

Personally I hope that CCP is looking at structures in space as a kind of a solution to this. Give player corps something they can deploy for a real benifit that they can lose. POCOs have not really done this and POSs seem to be too specialised for most high sec players to care to have.

I am also aware that this high sec corp buff can't be large enough to make staying in secure space a better option that carving out a part of null, with the costs associated with that kind of territorial control.

Personally I suspect some form of structure that can buff activity for the corps members with it's vulnerability linked to the entosis link might be interesting.

In practice though, this will certainly favour larger organisations, as the smaller ones will simply get swept away (see also; POCOs). But given how EVE works, this is not automatically a bad thing. Small corps don't really have much of a point aside from niche or fringe dwellers.

EDIT (forgot to add a conclusion)

Providing high sec corps with something that they might have a chance of defending, that can get removed and can accumulate value over time, making it harder to replace, might make a difference in some cases.

You are in Brave and don't know about nullsec life? The wardec is a special snowflake because it's highsec PvP. In highsec you and your neutral logi/scout alts can freely operate protected by concord rules, shooting happens only between corporation members at war. Nobody else in system can help you and pose an additional threat to the attacker like in any other space. This imbalances the risk, because a highsec "PvP" corp, chooses to dec a weaker industry corp to loot their towers, and in practice nobody will interfere with this trapshooting, unless the prey pays protection money. In any other space cherry picking target corps is not that easy and risk free.