Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This idea has come up before, but it's been a while, and given the more recent changes, I think it's good to address it again.

Frankly, between the range nerfs and the addition of jump fatigue, I don't see this as adding anything more to the game. At that point you're not nerfing force projection - you're punishing people for having more friends than you do. Does it suck to get hot dropped by 45 people? Hell yeah. Been there, done that, got the t-shirts. But that's Eve.

Additionally, this disproportinately hurts smaller entities who may not have the additional pilots for more cynos. Some would argue that the range nerf did the same thing, but it also forced the larger nullsec entities to contract some, so I think the smaller groups got more out of it than the may have lost.

This change, on the other hand, offers up no benefit to the smaller entity - the larger groups will bring more cyno ships to cover the nerf, while the smaller groups simply cannot, meaning they may not be able to field the numbers necessary to win the objective (whatever that is).

tl;dr: Jump movement is in a pretty good place at the moment. I don't think this is really necessary.

I think the OP, ( and I agree) is saying that maybe that shouldn't "be EVE." Maybe that EVE, is a ****** EVE.



I disagree. The smaller entities, in general, don't have 10+ supers to drop, so they wouldn't be affected by this change at all. If the "smaller" guys, for example, us in GalMil, are dropping dreads/carrier en masse, like more than 10 or 20 caps... well then we're no longer that small are we? I say its perfectly reasonable to require more cynos. If we can't field them, we can't jump all the caps in.

+1

That being said... I'm in support of substantial combat buffs to supers, to offset the jump nerfs (fatigue already + something like this if it happens).

Because if I'm in a super I should be able to do everything all the time?

Attention all super pilots: sell those outdated pieces of junk while you can still get a return on your investment. If you've been playing eve long enough to fly a super then you've been playing eve long enough to see the end game for supers. Get your cash now, before it's too late.

Appreciating the input guys, whether it's in agreement or critical. :)

I think something like this would be part of the super rebalancing, not with or against it and could be taken into account while they're potentially being rebalanced. It's tweakable too, by changing the limitation on mass/volume you can limit the amount of ships that can pass through before the cyno stops working, meaning that if or when further balancing comes in, it wouldn't be a huge issue to change the numbers.

Another thing that just occurred to me about this idea though that (IMO) strengthens it even more is that since the limiting factor happens in the "receiving" system, it'd work effectively with tidi. Currently since the receiving system is slowed, it gives anything jumping into the system effectively more time to get there. If a fleet is relying on more cynos in position, then they'll have more of an issue getting those cynos to where they're needed. At the moment, tidi actually favours the bigger fleet that will have more time to get reinforcements into jump range.


Bottlenecking the way supers move around in a way that doesn't affect caps or subcaps so much would mean that as they're slower to get on field, the first ones there would be more vulnerable while they wait for reinforcements. Also some thought would need to be put into extraction again rather than one guy waiting with a cyno. That would (hopefully) mean that supers aren't thrown around quite as casually as they are at the moment. Jumping a super into a red cap fleet without making sure that you're set up properly would be riskier.

But none of it would affect the core gameplay. Nothing's specifically getting nerfed or buffed, one super before would still be as powerful as one super after. It'd just mean that the guys that can send out a ping and get 50 supers online within minutes currently would be slowed in their response time. Not only directly because of my suggested changes, but because they'd need to make sure that multiple cynos are in place.

This is an unnecessary limitation and one that will ultimately just be irritating for all concerned.

I believe that some Eve players are still hung up on what happened last year or the year before, and have not quite absorbed how different Eve is post-Phoebe, and will be post-FozzieSov.

Your "solution" will get sidestepped by the use of multiple cynos as opposed to singular cynos.

More over, just decoupling the need to jump to a cyno beacon (allowing caps to jump themselves with a margin of error, thus splitting up incoming capital forces across multiple grids as opposed to a range of 100km given bumping mechanics) will go a much further way to being a real impact-full change.

That being said, your problem is that you (or the people you represent) are space poor and you don't have supers. Which isn't a problem that a nerf bat should be fixing to begin with.....

Not at all, I actually really don't like what fozziesov is bringing to the table. To me, blobs is not a fun way to play (either with or against, and I've done both) and I see fozziesov just making frig blobs more effective in sov war. Corps that rely on numbers that are already insanely powerful and will become even more powerful once those 200 atrons actually become a meaningful fleet in a sov war instead of just fodder.



What an odd statement. That's not true at all.

Firstly I'm in a group of corps that has about 50 members total, if every one of us had a super, it still wouldn't add up to the numbers of supers alone that the entities I'm trying to suggest a counter to can muster within a few minutes.

Secondly supers aren't that expensive. I could go from broke to a super in far less time than it'd take to train one. If I put in the hours, I could own one in less than a month. I'm sure people that are into trading or industry could be even faster. Though you're right about on an alliance level, smaller alliances that are poorer can't compete with the larger ones.



Pretty much hit the nail on the head. What I propose isn't "OMFGWTFBBQ BREAK ALL THE SUPERS!!one", it's aimed at making them less convenient and at slightly more risk due to some thought being needed in how to get them in and out. I think the N+1 mechanic will always be a part of any game that doesn't have limited team sizes, but Eve isn't N+1 at the moment, it's N+200. I agree with you on counterplay but I'm not sure what mechanic could fix that. I've thought about the idea of a spool up timer on the cyno, but that would just help the winning fleet win even harder rather than bring things more into balance.

Supers aren't just random ships that you undock and then go roam in, they're big ships with thousands of crew members. It would make sense for some actual logistical work being needed to move them about rather than just "cyno lit, bam 50 supers on field 2 minutes after the ping went out".

Eve's not fair and the big dog will always eat the little one in the end, but the little one should be able to get a few bites in first. :)

At this point in time I am neither for or against this idea. Based on arguments presented on both sides I can see where each has some valid points. But in the end I still come back to what I have been saying for months regarding changes to anything that may affect sov and nul sec play in general. Let CCP fully implement the sov changes and everything related to that.
Once they have and the players have had a period of time to adjust to the new reality then we can come back and revisits ideas like this and discuss potential changes based on how things HAVE changed, instead of speculation of what they MIGHT become.