Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think some good data points would be how much each type of moon is actually worth per month as of right now. Are there any spreadsheet nerds (I say that with respect and jealousy) that can whoop up a nice little table?

I think we need a bit of perspective on Frostys losing 3 bil in ships for 2 bil worth of resources. I think it best for all if we understand what 2 bil worth of resources means in relation to goo production time.

It would be awesome if you could make the following columns:

| goo type | goo value / unit | goo value per month |

Wow, really? I wonder what all those POSes over r64 moons I keep reinforcing and defending are really for then, if not fighting over control of moons...

Rapid math if I didn't mess up something gives about 1,5bill a week for Dysprosium at current price.

93,866.6 per unit (sell order price)

100 unit per hour (fixed value)

9,388,660.00 per hour

225,327,840.00 per day

1,577,294,880.00 per week

Not included of course is the sunk cost of the tower and assorted modules and the fuel blocks to run the tower.

If the math is wrong, please tell me why so I can get a better idea of what a moon is worth.

I'm not going to say your math is wrong, but you are forgetting the larger chunk of it actually. Most mined moon materials in null are actually used in reactions. Leftover material is typically stockpiled or hauled to empire. So to do the math correctly you'd actually have to include reactions which require said moon goo.

Fact is, even if moon goo moved randomly it would still have to be tied to a region otherwise you could sit in one place and expect to see every type of goo over time. What this would actually accomplish is actually a step back from what we have seen the mere ANNOUNCEMENT of fozziesov has created. Alliances would branch out more to insure they held and entire region(s) to insure when the goo did deplete and shift that they would have control of the new system. Towers would be on every moon offline waiting for that moon to be populated. And while I'm at it moon probing would have to changed significantly or removed entirely for this to even be worth it and not cause some massive depression in the market. You can have 100+ moons in a system, this means every moon not currently mining would have to be probed. Just think about that if you have ever actually had to probe an entire region of moons. Ya, nobody is going to do that willingly.

If you think this possibly puts the goo in the hands of the small corp, or individual I have news for you. All towers are on a corp level, corps can give rights to members, but it is, at it's heart, a corp level asset. Corps are a part of alliances, alliances have sov bills and SRP which players have come to be reliant upon so they don't have to spend hours grinding isk in a few non-cloaky camped systems to afford their doctrine ships. This means even IF moon goo left alliance hands and was handed off entirely to the corp level you can expect higher taxes, you like mining? Industry? Market trading? Expect API wallet audits to make sure you are properly contributing. Try to slip through the cracks? Expect a warning if your lucky, or a kick and find all your assets locked in now hostile stations.

There is literally nothing wrong with the current system under the current sov mechanics. Now everything can change with the upcoming fozzie sov, but until then it is literally player's delusions of some massive isk generating machine that goes entirely to the alliance leadership. They never think about the actual costs:
TCU - 20m/day
IHUB -10m/day
Cyno gen - 4m/day
Cyno jammer - 25m/day
Super cap production - 1m/day (I think)
Bridges - 12.5m/day

That is per day, per system. And remember, bridges take 2 systems, the number I gave is per system. And that's not even looking at SRP which can rack up very quickly with a few careless FCs.



PS - For the love of all that is holy stop calling it an isk faucet. It just makes you look foolish as it generates no isk. It causes isk to exchange hands - typically from the alliance level to the solo players who are producing fuel blocks. For it to be an ISK FAUCET we would have to be generating isk from the moon itself. So please get informed, stew in those numbers a while, then try to present intelligent and informed design changes

except they didn't. They complex's were farmed by the people who owned them. And at the time, BoB, ASCN, and other groups formed packs to not mess with others complexs. It was a flase conflict driver.

Moons stopped being fought over a long time ago as well. Goons did not attack BoB because bob has moons. BoB did not kill ASCN for ASCN's moons. Some small battles happened over moons, but large conflicts happened for more human reasons.

Null Sec is fragmented with fatigue.

-1

The static complexes were farmed by a few dudes. Their alliance controlled the system and a few sellect folks ran them. There were no great 10/10 wars. Sure someone took them and controlled them, but they didn't drive conflict. It was a dumb system that benefitted a very few folks. You want that back? On the other hand, there is way too much faction gear dropping in the game. Some of the stuff should be rare and rediculouse to purchase. The fact that I put X-type modules on my battleships is just upside down. And then there are all the great null businiessmen whining for more better pve content to keep all their minions in line. Rare modules should be just that - rare.

I've never scanned a few thousand moons. It would suck. That's the point. No one would be able to constantly scan all those moons. It would promote system ownership.

It's easy - corp A in alliance B is inhabitting systems X,Y & Z. The 50 dudes in corp A have 50 moons across their 3 systems. CEO of corp A directs his guys to scan the moons weekly. It comes down to 1 guy per moon or 1 guy scans 50 moons once a week. Whatever the corp decides for their 3 systems and 50 moons is super.

It's impossible - The leaders of mega coalition A are yelling at each other in the 'elite members' room. "I need answers! How are we going to control all the moons? Who is going to scan 2000 moons?" *painful silence* "We can't sir... there are already vague reports of rogue pilots solo profiteering the moons right under our noses. We don't have enough trustetd pilots to police all the moons." *seething anger erupts from the exhalted one* "Tech moons..... TECH MOONS!.... we must control them all!" *scene fades out of super elite channel and focuses slowly back in to random secret channel named JACKPOT. "OK so the 3 of us are agreed. We'll mine the moon as long as we can. When we get caught - we'll take what we got out of it and run. I'll set up an alt corp with a market alt to keep our names out of the business end of it. We'll get our first shipment out in 3 days........" *the excited discussion continues for almost an hour*

And again - the eve economy won't be destabalized - the moon goo monopolies will just be dismantled. Look at PI - it's pretty much chump change, but many many pilots go through the effort to pull those resources out and make small bank on it. Imagine the PI army bringing itself to bear on the much more lucrative moon goo market. The overall economy will be just fine. I predict t2 prices will drop. There will be no shortages and there will be no monopolies.

Cyno jammers are needed for protecting supercapital production.

You're welcome. No I don't mean it, but you did say please.

Just remove some of the rediculously long smugglers gates between null regions. Let the new sov sink in.
Stir the pot, see what happens.

I can see making a case to add some kind of dynamism, so that there can be settlers and wanderers both. The nomadic life is much better suited to small groups than settling is--and, of course, a large settler alliance can accommodate wanderers.

It would promote drama as leadership are forced to tell people what to do with their game time just to keep track of moons.


Are you kidding me? Look at page 1, I gave an example system that could work without forcing people into relocation constantly. Not only increasing line member's wealth, but putting space friends and enemies at odds with one another.

The people put in charge of moons are small not just because there are not a lot of people willing to put forth the EFFORT in maintaining the current system, but it is ran more efficiently with fewer numbers involved not to mention less risk of theft.

For the love of got get your head out of your ass and read what I took the time to type. I'm taking the time to read your narrow minded and misinformed rants at least return the favor.



I have a news flash for you, EVE is old. And unlike other MMOs which constantly release new tiers of gear through the years making old gear obsolete. EVE has not done such a thing, so modules used in year 1 are just as effective (patches willing) as they are today. Faction modules, deadspace modules, officer modules have been entering the system since day 1 and far fewer have been removed through destruction. That is why prices continue to drop.
If CCP wants to do something to stem the tide, they would have to completely reconsider how they go about releasing content in the current system, and possibly rework the entire weapon/modules system as a whole.

For example:
Penetration system current weapons are given x penetration value, defensive plating and hardeners given y "thickness" or w/e while keeping the resistance profiles intact. In two years, and new set of modules and weapons released increasing these penetration values making the previous systems slightly less effective. And the cycle continues through the years forcing new invention and production in an arms race.

Now that's obviously a bad example, and a quick one at that, but you get the idea. The reason modules are becoming so cheap is not because resources are more common than ever before, it's because we have far more entering the system than leaving.


Corps are in Alliances. Alliances typically require corp APIs. Towers are Corp assets and appear when viewing a corp API. Moon harvesters mine into Silos. Silos are containers which store corp assets which are also visable on the corp API. How do you suppose this scheming little group will evade detection within an hour of starting? It's the same way siphon detection works. The API is called and a program reads the values stored within a silo and flags it if it detects a value after mod 100. In your scenario if a tower is caught with tech/dyspro/etc and not noted by alliance leadership the hammer will come down. You think you can join a large moon holding alliance without submitting an API? Then you obviously have no idea how things work within this game.

Big brother is always watching, and if you think your out of alliance corp can put up a tower and not be detected either, good luck with that :)

You want to know how alliances will handle moving moons within their region. Just read what I already wrote, it's not hard in the slightest. Just a pain in the ass for no added content.

---

So I'll end with this since the wall of text was pretty much meant for one person so I apologize to everyone else. If you want to enable more player interaction wealth is a sure fire way to go about that, but you cannot simply add another-larger isk faucet. One way is via my previous example, a contestable regional boost to resources and LP rewards rather that increased isk rewards. Possibly giving access to drifter or more advanced faction tech which can be reverse engineered to produce new tiers of modules. Modules which would require the breaking down of previous tech to obtain the required components to build (T2 faction/deadspace).
I realize that goes against the current module tiericide, but Serendipity did bring up a good point,which is the the long known fact that far more "rare" modules enter the eve universe than are taken out.


EDIT: Can I please just have the "Bitter Vet" title now.