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Crime & Punishment

 
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Misec merc content under assault, again
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#21 - 2015-05-29 14:58:41 UTC
The higher corp tax is a red herring. This idea would be teh suxors for mission runners. 20% is pretty steep.

However, look at the following corp types:

1. Miners as Mo mentioned. Mine in freedom. Trade as necessary to avoid any taxes.
2. Indy corp. Trade the goods into the corp, build your crap and then trade the crap out to avoid taxes. Your HS tax free indy pos can't be bothered by anyone.

Number 2 is almost sinister as it would allow large player blocks to build t2 stuff at zero risk. JF stuff into HS system, trade it in a station, warp from inside a docking ring to inside a POS shield. Reverse the process with the outproducts.

What's next? Concord protection bubbles for LS POS for the processes you can't do in empire??


Thankfully, I think CCP has finally seen how these baby steps add up to a boring game that folks stop playing over several years.

Sadly, the tools pushing for this garbage have not.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-05-29 15:18:02 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
You forgot pride. That's kinda worth fighting for if you've managed to accumulate some.
It's one of those commodities like trust.
God I just realized how condescending that sounds... NOT aimed at you. Shocked


LOL. No worries, I know what you mean. Yes, if you've built a reputation or a brand within the game (a la E-UNI) that would be damaged if you had to change your name, that's worth fighting over - but those corps are few and far between.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#23 - 2015-05-29 17:51:40 UTC
At the risk of hijacking this thread I do think the war dec system is in need of a complete overhaul. Funny thing tho Wardecs themselves are not the issue its the above mentioned reasons. Complete lack of incentive outside of pride and possibly owning some POCO's which as most people discovered aren't worth the hassel. To make this system better there needs to be a better conflict generator. I think the new SOV structures may be the key here

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-05-29 21:17:27 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
There are three general groups of players where defending against highsec wars are concerned.

1) People who aren't paying attention (this also includes stupid people).
2) People who are willing to fight you (at least for a little while, until they realize what a one-sided affair the war is, and join group 3).
3a) Everyone who will immediately drop corp, roll a new one, and go on with their lives as if you didn't exist.
3b) People who go play on their alts, ignore you, and go on with their lives as if you didn't exist.

A wardec will only lead to kills against members of group 1 or group 2.

The fundamental flaw is the fact that, frankly, there is literally nothing in highsec worth fighting over. Towers? Meh, I'll just move it. It takes me literally a couple of hours. I can have it down, a new corp formed, and the tower back up and running in less time than it takes for the wardec to go live. (If I'm really being a ****, I'll leave one alt in the old corp, just so the wardec actually starts).


There's so much truth here. I wish the HTFU crowd would not pretend to be so ignorant of the way wardecs play out in practice.

I am presently in an NPC corp so I don't have to contend with wardecs, aside from faction war targets whose highsec stomping grounds are fairly predictable. If I were in a highsec corp that got decced, I would just go play on my alt for a week, or go farm LP in lowsec. There's just not much point in fighting neutral logi/scout assisted station game specialists in T3s.

There is absolutely no point being in a player corp in highsec that does anything less than pure PvP because you will always be at an inherent disadvantage against groups solely dedicated to highsec combat.

The only people you guys kill, are those who don't understand the reality of how wardecs work, or your competition (other mercs).

Everyone else uses one of many available workarounds to avoid you (NPC corps, corp rolling, playing on alts, leave highsec, do something else for a week, brush up on station trading) because actually fighting you is not fun. It's not your responsibility to bring about fun fights for your targets you say? That is true. It's also completely irrelevant. If playing the game on your terms is not fun, people will not do it. You say you want highsec carebears to become better and learn the game without recognizing that this will just lead to less content and less profit for yourselves. Removing some of these work-around is not going to magically force people to play clay pigeon. You'll kill the same dumb/new players as before and everyone else will just find another way to avoid you.

More "good" EVE players, I.e players who are better informed and thus better able to assess risk while engaging in the risk averse playstyle this game incentivizes, leads to less content all around.

I realize I am talking to a brick wall but hey, forum pvp is content too.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#25 - 2015-05-29 21:22:49 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Complete lack of incentive outside of pride and possibly owning some POCO's which as most people discovered aren't worth the hassel. To make this system better there needs to be a better conflict generator.

These threads have gone full circle and generally that's the conclusion that is reached by the end. The discussion is a bit moot past that until CCP releases their full vision for structures and assets in highsec.

Missing from the discussion though are ways to give incentive to industrial corporations to fight among themselves. The concern in these threads are centered around balancing the wars between mercenaries and their victims. Our primary concern should be with how to create conflict between the hundreds or thousands of highsec industrial corporations.

I shall now quickly shill my idea once again that accomplishes just that: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5673139#post5673139

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-05-29 23:02:31 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Our primary concern should be with how to create conflict


Full stop. In a PvP centric game like Eve, this should be Job 1.
(Right behind death to all supers.)

Every decision CCP makes should start and end with "How does this help encourage player on player interaction?"

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#27 - 2015-05-29 23:54:04 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
There are three general groups of players where defending against highsec wars are concerned.

1) People who aren't paying attention (this also includes stupid people).
2) People who are willing to fight you (at least for a little while, until they realize what a one-sided affair the war is, and join group 3).
3a) Everyone who will immediately drop corp, roll a new one, and go on with their lives as if you didn't exist.
3b) People who go play on their alts, ignore you, and go on with their lives as if you didn't exist.

A wardec will only lead to kills against members of group 1 or group 2.

The fundamental flaw is the fact that, frankly, there is literally nothing in highsec worth fighting over. Towers? Meh, I'll just move it. It takes me literally a couple of hours. I can have it down, a new corp formed, and the tower back up and running in less time than it takes for the wardec to go live. (If I'm really being a ****, I'll leave one alt in the old corp, just so the wardec actually starts).


QFT
Valkin Mordirc
#28 - 2015-05-30 02:19:24 UTC
Kinda sad. Veers went from Illogical troll, making long and detailed post. Now when ever he post it's down to small single sentences or even smaller.


It's like Anslol without the SwagBoi feel to it. =\
#DeleteTheWeak
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#29 - 2015-05-30 02:51:23 UTC
One fun past time is deccing a corp roller who has a faction tower. if you already know when they log in scooping the tower is child's play

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#30 - 2015-05-30 12:48:05 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Kinda sad. Veers went from Illogical troll, making long and detailed post. Now when ever he post it's down to small single sentences or even smaller.


It's like Anslol without the SwagBoi feel to it. =\


qFT
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