Player Features and Ideas Discussion

TL:DR? Balancing is Hard, Follow these simple steps.

1) Communication. - Start with a vision, then focus the debate.
2) Help us test. Help us test better. - Helping us help you.
3) There may be an order by which things need to be done. - Be aware of existential issues.
4) Provide solutions that track emergent game play. - Have a pulse on your game.
5) Roles and Niche size > *Balance*. - Performance is less important than niche, niche size and style.
6) Ebb and Flow. - Perpetual balancing and a reasonable cycle of change.
7) Make ships interesting to fit, and fun to fly. - Avoiding poor game mechanics


1) Communication.
We're at a point now in which CSM members have reduced noise and have produced tools that clearly identify issues which need to be dealt with. We all know what the major problems are, some of us have ideas on how to fix them, however during the actual process of testing, communication ceases. It is like devs have decided on a solution, released onto the test server and if there are no threadnoughts, changes go live. Now I can appreciate just how time consuming and difficult good communication can be - I also understand that the noise to nuggets ratio on these types of forums can be poor or vested interests can skew the tenor of the feedback... But there are so many imperceptible ways good communication will help the process.

START WITH A VISION, then form some sort of rationale for your decisions of the back of which the player base can determine your point of view... During the balance stage, prompt us to give feedback on specifics, whether it be fittings, performance vs specific ship classes - you will always find that accuracy and noise is greatly improved. NO, we won't be the primary source of analysis but, If anything, leaving us with the feeling we positively affected the ships design, will improve our sense of satisfaction. (See Khanid MK II process)


2) Help us test. Help us test better.
One of the most worrying things about Tech 3's is how none of the subsystems with the stats and bonuses that made it live to TQ, were ever available for testing on SiSi. What you and I tested, several weeks before Apocrypha went live were different to what is on TQ right now. IF CCP VALUE PLAYER TESTING THIS CAN NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.
In addition, if the process of player testing is valued, it should be better directed. If there are specific things or specific ways you would like us to test ships, let us know.



3) There may be an order by which things need to be done.
At the moment, the schedule for balancing seems to be thus:
Pick which problems seem to be the smallest, then sort by which ones the players have the biggest beef with. I understand that until the CCP allocates more resources into unimportant things like balancing, Team BFF's *triage* methodology will have to do... I guess that logistics warp speed boost and Draimiel speed nerfs are quick, unirreversible wins... (Although there's a very strong case (based on usage, fleet compositions) that frigate and destroyers (all meta levels) speeds should be raised by about 1kms w/ MWD whilst ships like the dramiel and sabre receive less of a boost.)

HOWEVER.

Eve ship balance suffers from several existential problems, chief among them, blobs, and the role of active tanking and tiers. Without looking at active tanking and fleet sizes, I don't think Gallente can be satisfactorily dealt with, I fear dreads will continue to have a marginal role and that a play style, battered by the prevalence of cap warfare and fleet sizes will fade away into the history books.

Ship Tiers is another problem that is most acute with Battlecruisers and cruisers: lower tier ships are completely pointless after the first few hours/days of skill training. There is a growing movement (See Tiericide) which suggests that doing this would solve a number of niggling balance problems.

Addressing such problems before attempting to solve racial issues will probably save a lot of time.



4) Provide solutions that track emergent game play.
The Tempest Fleet Issue is a good example of a balance change that went completely against the grain of how players flew certain ships. At the time on the test server, the preference for passive tanking fits with damage mods and tracking comps in the lows maximising the turrets performance and ships speed/agility grew significantly. So what did the CCP do? Switched Shield and Armour HP even though minmatar ships had shield favourable EM resists and provided the fleet tempest with the same slot layout as the Mach, minus turrets, drones, HP, speed, agility etc etc.
Is the Fleet Tempest better than the Tempest? Probably, is it worth flying? No.
Not only were the roles and niche similarities exacerbated by the slot layout change, it was completely incongruent with the way the ship was used.

It's a problem because it does not seem like this is currently a consideration when making decisions. Things like Art Direction (in relation to Myrmidon or Eos losing drones instead of turrets, or the Naglfar) seem to rank higher than something that, in the end usually pays dividends for pilot satisfaction and ship usage down the line. This should simply not be the case.

Track how players are using your ships. I'm sure you must have your own internal metrics for seeing what ships are used most and how they are fit, I think (hope?) that you still also play the game competitively and have a solid handle on what is going on, but if you don't, ask, go on eve-kill/battleclinic, view the statistics, see what gets blown up the most and what doesn't. HAVE A PULSE ON THE TRENDS OF THE GAME. Ideally, having a balance team that spots issues before the RABBLE does should be the goal.

I guess more posts are getting chewed up by the new forum tech than i first thought...

Done.
Though this is as much for the player base, as it is for the devs.

Made a few corrections/additions.

I approve of this message, and will be pointing the appropriate devs to this thread.

Thanks...

Comments, disagreements or things I've missed?

Also bumping

Did someone say my name?

Good post. Would read again.
Pattern is a pretty cool guy. he posts sensibly about balancing and doesn’t afraid of anything.

wall of text from a cheater guy.

didnt read

He doesnt cheat, he just knows where all the cards in the deck are.

Thanks for taking the time to read it

Good start so far on capital balancing btw