Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That's what I'm taking it as, we asked way back on (I think) page 2 and there has been 0 response. Besides, why would missiles need to be looked at? The Drake is doing just fine, and is just as useful as intended.
*I use the Drake not because I think the ship could use some looking at, which it definitely could, but because its weapon systems are pretty ****.

That's the only real problem the Jackdaw has. The performance you get out of the other two is amazing and since the last patch they have also become even cheaper.
But before nerfing Svipul and the 'Fessor into the ground let's give the Jackdaw a chance on TQ.

CCP should however in the light of upcoming T3C rebalance reconsider the place of T3 within the powerspectrum of ships.
Their original statement was that T3 is not significantly more powerful than T1 but very versatile. Right now, T3 ships feel very versatile (good) but on the level T2, faction or even beyond (feels awesopme but is not good for the game)

My initial impression of the Jackdaw is that, like most missile ships, it will do very well. When there are other ships on-grid to handle minor details like points and webs so that the target(s) can't simply burn away and warp off leaving the Jackdaw pilot to wonder if half-kills count.
Anything that the Jackdaw does manage to get into point and web range of, with a weak enough tank, will surely die and I expect that the Jackdaw will be splendid at hunting weak targets and running away from anything big or fast. The large sig radius will ensure that it will take plenty of damage outside of Defense mode, and the very wanting speed will make sure that if it can be forced into Defense mode it will stand a good chance of dying shortly after.
This is not to say it's horrible, it's not, but I do believe it is on par with what can be expected of a Caldari missile ship:
-big (sig radius)
-slow
-useful when other ships carry much of the load

Again, I'm not saying it's horrible but I do not expect it to see as much use as the Confessor or Svipul, and surely not as much as the Hecate will. The Jackdaw, having been vaccinated against the sins of the Tengu and Drake, will likely be a one-off in small gangs. I will say, it's quick turn and acceleration will, with SeBo's and Hyperspatials, make it useful for initial tackle so long as the rest of the fleet is not too far behind.

The main sin with caldari ships seems to be they're balanced around the principle that any role they've got in a fleet can easily be filled by any equivalent. The same is not said in the reverse. What scenarios prompt the call for caldari ships over the more flexible gallente and minmatar ships?

Standup fleet scraps with heavy logistics. Same as Amarr. Because the resist bonuses right up the stack.

The other races are more skirmish suited (with some outlier ships) to local reps.

I'm aware I'm generalising and there are exceptions.

Oh boy, those changes..

While it is new to change ammo in two seconds it still doesn't help the Jackdaw, the ship without purpose or identity. The thing the Jachdaw has going is that it can run away fast and sometimes even fight a frigate or two. Anything more and it is going to be a 100 million isk loss.
The Jackdaw cannot fight a Confessor and hope to win and in no configuration fight a svipul or more, it just can't.

You cannot mitigate incoming damage by speed or movement with a 1mn or a 10mn afterburner and your signature radius makes you a battleship with a mwd on.
Buffer tanks are a futile exercise and active tanks don't help either and believe me, I tried them all.

Rockets used to be one option before the change but brawling isn't really popular these days and you would have to pin your target first, so light missiles it is.

Bring friends you say? Yes sure but then, every other boat scales too in numbers, don't they?


So here it is again, the one million isk question, what are we supposed to fight with it?

Ah, I see - NPCs.

Thank you for yet another Caldari pve boat.

I for one would never fly a fleet tengu. That means ishtars. Not even fleet logi so far as I've seen uses minmatar reps not caldari.

Ok I loved this thread.
> Experts with opinion who got 2-3 kb kills with t3d
> Guys who kicked in within fleets of 10+ t3d with support
> B O I S who want it RIGHT NAOW
> Unlucky poor folks who decided to kill a 300-500 mil snaked boat with their atron but didnt succeed

Thanks for capsuleers fitted with brains who mentioned really important downsides of the concept:
- 6 meds means Thermodynamics 5 or gtfo. That would be the month of burned medium subsystem.
- Low speed with 10mn ab or huge sig with mwd. No kite - no life. Speed tanking was 90% of tanking. Confi and svipuls were op in beam/arty kite fits. All close setups were just dead briks untill something heavy (or any EAF) or not so dumb landed on.
- The amount of fights which will be flipped due to reload speed bonus is a joke. Just remember how many times reload time was more critical than distance/cap control.

Anyway the patchnotes are here and soon we'll be facing talwar 2.0 in action.

30-50km? Kiting? That's 100mil point at minimum, 100mil point + 1 billion booster at maximum?

Also killing any frigate in 4 shots? Hmm.. it's possible to kill t1's that easily sure but the jackdaw gets ROF not volley while iirc the corax and flycatcher both get raw damage. I can push a flycatchers volley up to 2198 with fury scourge, what does a jackdaw get? 1700 or so? I don't remember.

Like this is the problem - most of these theoretical fits exist only for those with the pre-req billions to shell out for this stuff. Are these the only clientele who should be flying these ships? Do pensioners drive lambourghinis?

I said it earlier in the thread that if the maximum balance of the ship is based around an infinite budget then sure we can work with that but people always assume balance is around some lower fitting and if you start thinking like that then we get perceived imbalances.

Only make balance commentary around the maximum pimp of a ship. The only really valid balance criticism is that based off a ship which cannot be blinged out any further - links included.

I've been running with empty head. The 10mn fit is about 130mil on TQ and I used my TQ booster (4link eccm scangu, 350mil boosterfit and 40mil skirmish mindlink), I don't consider that expensive. The defense mode being so not agile is almost beneficial, accelerate in prop and switch to cruise mode.

The volley-statement is just, things I saw happen. Regarding the LML-fit, 22-26km is regular kite range. You got thermo V and a masive heat bonus on the hull, so you can heat your point for about 2 minutes and still not burn that thing. With links, ranges increase to 31/37km pointage, or just barely fury range and CN range using propmode.