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Nullsec combat sites worth it?

Author
James Pickers
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2015-05-26 00:12:14 UTC
I started to run some combat sites in nullsec again. I finished a sansha hub and overall I got only 3 million isk in loot and about the same in bounties. For a good 20mins of combat this seems very low.

Am I doing something wrong, or does the good isk only come from commander spawns and escalations?
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-05-26 05:48:12 UTC
James Pickers wrote:
I started to run some combat sites in nullsec again. I finished a sansha hub and overall I got only 3 million isk in loot and about the same in bounties. For a good 20mins of combat this seems very low.

Am I doing something wrong, or does the good isk only come from commander spawns and escalations?


Faction spawns are unlikely to ever appear in a random anom/static combat site, so no... the income does not come from there.

The short answer to your overall questions is, yes, it's worth it. I rat in my alliance sov in a -0.5 system and earn 100-125M ISK/hour. There are many factors that go into how much you can earn. Here are some things to keep in mind, both in the form of information and tips.

1. The ship you're flying and the DPS is you're pushing is the single biggest factor. A 380-420 DPS Tengu is going to aspire to 50M ISK/hour max. A 1000+ DPS Rattlesnake is going to crank out north of 100M+ ISK/hour consistently. It's about how quickly you can kill the rats. Nothing else really matters.

2. Chain run the sites. Top efficiency will come from running 1 hour worth of sites, dropping an MTU at each one. Don't forget to bookmark each MTU you drop. Once you've run X number of sites in that hour, switch into a salvaging boat (Noctis) and go slurp up all the loot and salvage from each site you've cleared.

3. Hubs are the 3rd hardest of all the sites (behind Sanctums and Havens) and, therefore, will likely require the greatest investment of time to clear. You are better served slamming through Hidden, Forsaken or Forlorn Rally Points. Quicker clears with comparable bounties per site. The most important consideration is, once again, DPS. Don't bother with Hubs or Havens solo unless you're above 600 DPS. They'll take too long.

4. Rat type matters. For whatever reason, the rats of certain pirate factions tend to have better bounties than some others. This is not something you can control since your sov isn't of your choosing, but it is a factor to consider.

5. Escalations are not what you base your averages on, they are more like bonuses. You cannot predict how often you get escalations, so when you do, you simply consider it a nice pay day. That said, escalations are certainly part of the benefit of ratting because they will happen at somewhat regular intervals. So, while not part of the equation, they are part of the benefitof ratting and something you can count on profiting by regularly.

6. Consider team-ratting. I've found that there is almost never a drop in hourly income when ratting with a partner. More DPS means quicker site clears. I have a couple buddies in my corp that I rat with frequently. We use the method detailed in #2 above, but after the hour, one of us breaks off to loot/salvage, while the other 1 or 2 of us continue ratting. Those that keep the ratting going keep track of those bounties and give the looter/salvage their cut at the end of the session. We do this for a week or 2, then sell off loot/salvage and reprocess the stuff we don't sell in order to sell the minerals.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#3 - 2015-05-26 06:55:45 UTC
James Pickers wrote:
I started to run some combat sites in nullsec again. I finished a sansha hub and overall I got only 3 million isk in loot and about the same in bounties. For a good 20mins of combat this seems very low.

Am I doing something wrong, or does the good isk only come from commander spawns and escalations?


This does sound very low. Perhaps someone had already run part of the site?

The poster above generally has good information, but I do see a decent number of faction spawns when I run anomalies consistently.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

James Pickers
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-05-26 10:19:38 UTC
Well I just finished a Forsaken Rally Point. It took me at least 45 minutes and seemed to be far harder and take far longer than a regular hub. I got about 25 mill in bounties, 5 mill in loot and 3 mill in salvage. About 30 mill for an hour of work.

Im guessing that most of the money comes from bounties?

I use a cap stable apocalypse with about 550 dps with guns. Not sure if this setup would affect anything.
Nuclear Tap
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-05-26 12:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nuclear Tap
Yes, most of the money comes from bounties. Whem I lived in nullsec I didn't bother to salvage or loot at all.

It seemes your DPS is low, not the raw DPS but the applied DPS. Check your optimal and tracking.

I use to have some difficulties with a perfect skilled Dominx ( 600 DPS at 150 km range, and 850 DPS at 50km), and only managed to break 50M per hour with a RR Donimix pair (dual-boxing).

You will not achieve the numbers people claim here in the foruns without a pimped pirate hull with 1200 DPS or more. Try NM.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#6 - 2015-05-26 14:03:29 UTC
James Pickers wrote:
Well I just finished a Forsaken Rally Point. It took me at least 45 minutes and seemed to be far harder and take far longer than a regular hub. I got about 25 mill in bounties, 5 mill in loot and 3 mill in salvage. About 30 mill for an hour of work.

Im guessing that most of the money comes from bounties?

I use a cap stable apocalypse with about 550 dps with guns. Not sure if this setup would affect anything.


What ship are you using, because whatever you are doing it's taking WAY too long.

And you don't need a pirate BS to make good isk in anomalies. Plenty of Tech 1 battleships as well as properly used/fitted T3s and BCs can be good too, though not quite as good as a facilitation ship. A properly Fit t1 Typhoon with cruise missiles, 4 sentry drones and an mjd is magic, same goes for the Armageddon (missiles + drones is good in any ratting space).
James Pickers
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2015-05-26 15:17:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

What ship are you using, because whatever you are doing it's taking WAY too long.


James Pickers wrote:

I use a cap stable apocalypse with about 550 dps with guns.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#8 - 2015-05-26 18:29:01 UTC
James Pickers wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

What ship are you using, because whatever you are doing it's taking WAY too long.


James Pickers wrote:

I use a cap stable apocalypse with about 550 dps with guns.



What kind of rats? Sansha right?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2015-05-26 21:17:29 UTC
James Pickers wrote:
I started to run some combat sites in nullsec again. I finished a sansha hub and overall I got only 3 million isk in loot and about the same in bounties. For a good 20mins of combat this seems very low.

Am I doing something wrong, or does the good isk only come from commander spawns and escalations?


If you're getting 3M per tick with an Apoc shooting sansha, something is very wrong.

Please post your fit and we will help.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

James Pickers
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-05-27 02:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: James Pickers
This is the fit I am using:

8x Mega Pulse Laser II

4x Cap Recharger II

Large Armor RepairerII
2x Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Tracking Enhancer II
2x Heat Sink II

3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit

15x Acolyte I


550 DPS and ~ 50 more with drones.
Tends to get about 1100 damage per volley into sansha battleships. Usually takes 3 volleys at shields, 4 at Armor and 3 at hull to kill one. For cruisers/battle cruisers only 3-4 volleys are required to destroy it.
The rats I shoot are sansha.

Perhaps I am valuing capacitor stability too much and should instead fit for more DPS and tracking?
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-05-27 06:20:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Traejun DiSanctis
Right off the bat, you're overdoing it on the cap. You shouldn't be cap-stable in that... nor do you need to be. Slap a third heat sink in the lows in place of the tracking enhancer. Replace 2 of the Cap Rechargers with Tracking Computers.

You're aiming for 600-700 DPS as a threshold number. If you can't get there, then you're not properly skilled for this and, as such, won't be making the ISK/hour you should.

Also, replace one of the rigs with the large energy turret damage rig (forget the name). With 8 guns, that one rig will amount to quite a bit of deeps.
James Pickers
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-05-27 18:37:04 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Right off the bat, you're overdoing it on the cap. You shouldn't be cap-stable in that... nor do you need to be. Slap a third heat sink in the lows in place of the tracking enhancer. Replace 2 of the Cap Rechargers with Tracking Computers.

You're aiming for 600-700 DPS as a threshold number. If you can't get there, then you're not properly skilled for this and, as such, won't be making the ISK/hour you should.

Also, replace one of the rigs with the large energy turret damage rig (forget the name). With 8 guns, that one rig will amount to quite a bit of deeps.


I tried doing a Sansha Port with this fit. It was alright until the 3rd wave where I had to resort to only firing half my guns due to being out of capacitor. On the 4th wave, the incoming DPS required me to run my tank constantly which meant I had to stop firing completely. I left the site.

I don't understand how you are supposed to be able to fight for 20 minutes with only a few minutes of capacitor when pretty much all the modules need to be running. Even with perfect skills the fit only has 2:35 minutes of capacitor.
Princess Kyky
Keepers of Hali
#13 - 2015-05-27 23:27:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Kyky
swap 2 cap rechargers for tracking computers
swap the enhancer for cap power relay
and swap two t1 capacitor control units for t2 that should make you cap stable at around 46%
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#14 - 2015-05-28 00:17:57 UTC
What crystals are you using?
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-05-28 05:13:22 UTC
James Pickers wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Right off the bat, you're overdoing it on the cap. You shouldn't be cap-stable in that... nor do you need to be. Slap a third heat sink in the lows in place of the tracking enhancer. Replace 2 of the Cap Rechargers with Tracking Computers.

You're aiming for 600-700 DPS as a threshold number. If you can't get there, then you're not properly skilled for this and, as such, won't be making the ISK/hour you should.

Also, replace one of the rigs with the large energy turret damage rig (forget the name). With 8 guns, that one rig will amount to quite a bit of deeps.


I tried doing a Sansha Port with this fit. It was alright until the 3rd wave where I had to resort to only firing half my guns due to being out of capacitor. On the 4th wave, the incoming DPS required me to run my tank constantly which meant I had to stop firing completely. I left the site.

I don't understand how you are supposed to be able to fight for 20 minutes with only a few minutes of capacitor when pretty much all the modules need to be running. Even with perfect skills the fit only has 2:35 minutes of capacitor.


With the suggested alterations I made, you should have more than 2:35 of cap time. Which suggests to me that you don't have perfect skills.
James Pickers
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2015-05-28 09:56:01 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:


With the suggested alterations I made, you should have more than 2:35 of cap time. Which suggests to me that you don't have perfect skills.


I popped the fit into EFT and with all level 5 skills there's only 2:35 minutes of capacitor. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dextrome Thorphan
#17 - 2015-05-28 10:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
James Pickers wrote:
I started to run some combat sites in nullsec again. I finished a sansha hub and overall I got only 3 million isk in loot and about the same in bounties. For a good 20mins of combat this seems very low.

Am I doing something wrong, or does the good isk only come from commander spawns and escalations?


Yes you're doing something wrong. Do the hardest anomalies in a proper fitted cruiser/battlecruiser/HAC or battleship and you'll earn 6-7 times more in bounties. Speed-tanked ishtar with heavies is the most cost-effective and most passive, but pretty skill-intensive.
Dextrome Thorphan
#18 - 2015-05-28 10:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
5. Escalations are not what you base your averages on, they are more like bonuses. You cannot predict how often you get escalations, so when you do, you simply consider it a nice pay day. That said, escalations are certainly part of the benefit of ratting because they will happen at somewhat regular intervals. So, while not part of the equation, they are part of the benefitof ratting and something you can count on profiting by regularly.


Don't forget escalations are always a gamble though (and usually quite risky because more often than not they're located in space that isn't owned by your alliance): because the bounties aren't that great and it takes a long time to clear them and you gotta get lucky with the loot.
Thalos Elongus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-05-28 11:29:06 UTC
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
5. Escalations are not what you base your averages on, they are more like bonuses. You cannot predict how often you get escalations, so when you do, you simply consider it a nice pay day. That said, escalations are certainly part of the benefit of ratting because they will happen at somewhat regular intervals. So, while not part of the equation, they are part of the benefitof ratting and something you can count on profiting by regularly.


Don't forget escalations are always a gamble though (and usually quite risky because more often than not they're located in space that isn't owned by your alliance): because the bounties aren't that great and it takes a long time to clear them and you gotta get lucky with the loot.


I love getting an Escallation. The bookmark alone can be sold for 170M currently. (At that rate I have troubles running it myself, but a nice payday on a maze can be a-Maze-ing, so i am torn apart here)

REALISTIC ratting income is about

6-12 M / Tick - Running belts in a Gila
12-15 M / Tick - - Running Hubs/Sanctums in a decently fitted Dominix with good Drone skills
15-18 M / Tick - Running Hubs/Sanctums in a T2 fitted Dominix/Ishtar with perfect Drone skills and T2 drones / Faction drones
18-21 M / Tick - Running Hubs/Sanctums in a Pimped Ishtar (tripple faction DDA, no other weapons than drones, a DNC (Nav Comp) also helps to cut down the time needed)

I have no clue what values you can get with a carrier or anything like that, but i heard higher numbers are possible here.

Folks claiming 50M/Tick are either insane or are dual boxing and forgetting to divide that number by the number of accounts used.

Dreads add a bit on top and on belt ratting dreads/Haulers are actually a very sizable part of the results.

To earn some more isk, i also sometimes drop MTU (3-4 sites in a row) and then switch back to a noctis to collect loot and salvage (I do build Rigs)
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#20 - 2015-05-29 02:44:28 UTC
If you are in an upgraded system with a ship that does 700+ dps you can do easily 23mil ticks solo doing forsaken hubs back to back. You could do better before they introduced them pesky little frigs to the forsaken hubs.

... What next ??

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