EVE General Discussion

so what are the cons of these "social corps"? meaning will incursion runners etc just be able to create undeccable corps with logos and names, mailing lists, fits and all the other stuff which will allow them to farm isk much easier

basically what is the cons of these corps?

Yes, they do. But could a better solution be to enhance what we do have (mailing lists) which is how I read what Mike had to say here.

I do understand that some people are long time members of the likes of Something Awful, 4Chan and Reddit, and using the same community they are part of for posting such information makes sense.

I see your point about not having to log in to see the notifications.

That's a fair point, but if the existing mechanics are too cumbersome and outdated that existing corporations and alliances forgo them in favour of out-of-game systems (which we all do - I haven't used EvE voice since i was in RvB 5 years ago, the only thing I have ever seen on my in-game calendar is CCP mass tests on SiSi, I haven't looked at the Corp Noticeboard since the day I joined WIdot, and the last posts on the Corp Forum here is a two word post from earlier this year that finally supplanted one made by Erotica1's alt of all people two years before), why are we expending time and effort extend these unused and inefficient systems to more groups?

I just feel that a lot of pointless, unused, and inefficient systems are being set up on a pedestal they don't deserve, and the time being spent to engineer a way for these Social groups to use them (only to discover like the rest of us that they are crap and inefficient) is wasteful, when the time could be spent to make the non-useless systems benefitial for everyone.

What am I talking about?

Well, lets look at Chat Channels, something both Corps and "Social Groups" use. Numerous times we have seen mentioned here that MOTD's scrolling away is a pita. But thats not a social group problem, its a daily annoyance for fleet members everywhere, regardless of corp "affiliation". Social groups claim having a corp noticeboard (the ones existing corps never update after the first week anyway) will solve that, but why aren't we looking at instead changing how channels work - have a tabbed second page (or a locked section that never scrolls off) to hold the MoTD? In fact, why simply not just have a fleet MoTD appear in the fleet window itself? Those would be a sizeable quality of life improvement for everyone, corp or no. How about saveable MoTD's, so FC's (corp and social group) don't have to rewrite or copy-paste every fleet?

You ask about saveable fits, and again look to the painfully underused Corp Noticeboards (take a hint, no one uses them). Why not have a pinnable "important messages" section in mailing lists so guys can ignore the dross and just check the latest fits post?

Those are just off the top of my head. There are so many changes which you guys need that have nothing to do with needing a formalised Social Corp. These are changes that would benefit normal corps too. It just seems the "Social Corp" solution is putting the cart before the horse. Address the problems you have directly rather than in an awkward package that probably wont address half the issues anyway, and cause needless opposition because of the colour of the wrapping.

To make it concrete what I expect from CCP. Better support for casual play and NPSI groups/fleets. I do want to look up fleets for my groups in the fleet finder, I do want to have calendar entries, I do want shared fits, shared killboards (maybe tied to active community fleets only), I do want to proudly wear my Spectre, Bombers Bar etc. tag in game. I'm undecided about shared bookmarks, probably this is a bad idea as fleet bookmarks are a bad idea. This all are quality of life features for new, casual and diverse players - and I think CCP needs to keep those in the game. EvE is very casual friendly if you know how to do it.

You see. this is where you fall flat.

That is saying you do not need to leave a corp to join. That implies you can stay in your NPC corp to benefit from this. Again going against what is being said.

look at it this way. To get player out of NPC corps you have to give incentives that only being outside of NPC corps can give.

This being a "Club" for all to join, no matter what the Corp you are in = No incentive to leave NPC. Pointless exercise in adding to game what already exists. Failure to produce desired outcome. in other words a waste of time and resources, that could be applied to other areas of the game that need it.

This being an actual Corp = Carebear catering. pure and simple.

why join a player corp if you have all the benefits of player corp and the benefits of a npc corp?

Because these social groups don't provide any of the benefits of being in a player corp. Because you want to own SOV. Or have corporate hangars and wallets. Or set up a POS in a WH with SMAs, or a POS in highsec with a refining array. Or be in an alliance and fly in the AT.

only if you remove my 20mill KR

But so what? Neither Bomber's Bar nor Spectre Fleet are deccable. Why is that a problem?


Nobody has "projected" the undeccability of these social groups. Mike simply responded to a question asking if wardecs against them would be possible, and just like wardecs against mailing lists being impossible, he indicated his intention that they would not be decccable.

Think of these social groups as a chat channel, mailing list and calendar rolled up in a package, with the ability to be advertised. They are not intended to replace player corps, any more than chat channels, mailing lists and calendars on their own are intended to replace mailing lists.

Intended users of these social groups would be entities like:

• Agony Unleashed, who do public roams and offer PvP classes. FIGL does public roams at times too. And of course there's IVY and their classes, which they can expand to all sorts of players. I don't know of any others that do this, but if they did, advertising a social group would be a great way for people to learn of them.
• Bombers Bar, Spectre Fleet, CAS and the other NPSI organizations.
• Special interest groups within existing corps, alliances and coalitions. For example, CFC's wormhole pilots or highsec gankers.
• New players just starting out in the game who want quick and easy access to interacting with other players, without going through the commitment of applying to a corp of people they don't know, which can take quite a long time.
• Veteran players looking to try out some new to them play styles.

It's a somewhat old at this point, but my post #360 in this thread tries to be clear about it.