EVE General Discussion

Risk vs reward barely touches on PvP combat, and even then it's only the loot fairy. Risk vs reward applies to activities that generate assets or isk into the game world from nothing, it applies primarily to PvE as a result.

In PvP, my risk is pretty much a direct function of the effort put in by the other player. My reward is pretty much a direction function of their stupidity and/or greed. In PvP, that particular metric is left up to the player.



Well, if I'm just out for money, faction warfare missions are still the most lucrative thing in the game. But I can say much the same thing about highsec, except actually use the risk vs reward metric correctly, since it is generating assets. Why would you go anywhere else, if you can make risk free cash like crazy in highsec incursions?




And that's the fault of the mental deficients who stuff their freighters full of riches, by and large. That said, we gank every freighter now, even the empty ones, just to make a point to you people. And of course, you still never get it, so it continues.





There is no playstyle called "I shouldn't have to defend myself".

Again, this comment seems to agree that high sec PVP is plausible and working and balanced.
No need to change NPC corps, you can still kill those people.

Man, I'm loving this.
Keeps getting replies that suggest high sec is as intended.

Move along.

Agreed, but neither is

"I can already destroy this guy in his freighter, but I'd like to force him out of NPC corps, so I can war dec him, then destroy him, or make him quit from a perma dec."

This thread isn't about changing NPC Corps.

It's CCP who are trying to encourage more players to move to player-run Corps because they have identified that player-run Corps provide the environment where many of the experiences, that increase player retention, exist.

NPC Corps are fine. New players remaining in them is not bad and for some players it suits their playstyle. Unfortunately many new players also leave the game (90% within the first 30 days) because they don't find the experience that hooks them.

If CCP can change that trend then that's good not only for CCP and the future of the game, but for us as players also.

That was the whole basis for this thread in the first place. Asking, what keeps people in NPC Corps because the addition of the friendly-fire toggle is only one half of the issue (ie. trying to encourage player Corps to recruit more). The other half being trying to have players in NPC Corps look to move to player-run Corps.

So, the issue then becomes, why are players not joining corps, as opposed to why are players staying in NPC corps.

See, 11% tax and boredom are enough of a reason to leave an NPC corp.

However, why don't players leave?
Awoxing is no longer a major concern, so that's not the problem.
War decs aren't all that big a deal, as they don't happen that often. so this makes up for, at most, 20% of the player in NPC.

I would also assume that, at most, newbros only make up about 10%.

Then you can factor the anti-socials and other mental traits makes up maybe 20%.

What about the other 50%?
These are the focus.
Determining which of these are high sec alts, which just aren't having luck with corps, hauler alts, etc. etc.

The problem I see is that, if you do something, such as increase taxes, you're only hurting the people in the upper 50%.
While high sec alts and especially hauler alts, would be unaffected because they're using a player corp alt or main to sell/manifacture goods.

So, you only punish those that shouldn't be punished.

It's not an assumption. CCP have analysed the data they collect and have identified the types of experiences that lead to higher retention among new players.

They haven't just made it up, they've let the data identify the reasons.

As to moving the experiences to where players are, that's up the to players. It's the player driven content that increases retention. If the players in the NPC Corps provided more of the experiences, then the retention would probably improve too, since CCP have identified it's the social experiences that are important, not necessarily where they are.

It just so happens that player-run Corps provide most of those experiences naturally, so CCP doesn't really need to do anything other than allow people to discover them easier; which they are trying to do.

But any vet in an NPC Corp is able to provide those experiences internally too. Most just don't.

What reasons did the data identify, specifically, for players sticking with the game?
Which of those experiences do player-run corporations provide? Why those? Why not others? How could they be provided in NPC corporations? How could they be improved to advantage player-run corps?



Why not?

I honestly just think you've had a little too much Kool-Aid. You are starting with the premise that player-corps are better than NPC corps, that player-corp players are better than NPC corp players (in some sense). What you don't seem to be accounting for is that every player starts out as an NPC corp player. The lines are blurred.

If I joined a player corp for a month after playing EVE as an NPC corp player for 6 months, then left the player corp (i.e. dropped back to an NPC corp) and quit the game, would I be an NPC corp player or a player corp player?

If I joined a player corp with my main, but played just as much on my NPC corp "alt", would I be a player-corp player or an NPC corp player?

If I was a player corp member with an alt in an NPC corp and I disrupted the functioning of the NPC corp with my alt (and potentially with my main), would that be a bad NPC corp experience for others or, since I was a player-corp player, would that be a bad player corp experience for them, even though they weren't in a player corp?

All the information that CCP has posted is available to go read. You can go and see the reasons just the same as the rest of us.

A lot of them have been reposted in this thread. One of mine listing some of the reasons is just a few pages back:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5765482#post5765482

As to why? I don't know. It's what the data has shown CCP and they've described it in terms of the level of social engagement.

As to how those things could have been provided in NPC Corps, well more players in NPC Corps could setup TeamSpeak or Mumble servers, run fleet operations both for pve and pvp, start Corp forums, contact new players and take them roaming, use the Corp chat channels more, etc., etc., etc. - all the things that many players in player-run Corp do normally.

There is nothing stopping an NPC Corp player from doing any of that. It's not an issue of NPC Corp v Player Corp. Just about where the experiences most commonly occur that lead to greater retention.

You could be a champion of NPC Corp play any time you want for example. You could at any point turn State War Academy into a Corp that operates very similar to player-run Corps. There wouldn't necessarily be a shared goal or aims to target, but aside from that, nothing is stopping you, or me, or anyone else. There is nothing inherently wrong with NPC Corps.

They just aren't providing those experiences currently and I suspect it's largely based around the lack of shared interests and goals. Players in NPC Corps do their own thing and those Corps tend to be more solo player oriented and/or for alts. The big issue is in the starter Corps, and I suspect it's more difficult there because there is a high percentage of new players who don't even know about those things, let alone how to implement them.


Nah. I've just been trying to help fill in some of those gaps because some people have come into the thread recently and weren't aware of the background over the last few months. This isn't my personal mission. It just restating the things that CCP have been saying.

I have nothing against NPC Corps. I use them too.

This is totally not about NPC Corps as such. I've said that as my understanding multiple times in this thread. Three recent ones being:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5765787#post5765787
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5765482#post5765482
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5765985#post5765985

But I'll just drink some more Kool-Aid now and stop trying to help fill in gaps. It's all available to go read and watch.

Success.

Less flippantly, I think I was responding to a comment that getting people to have more varied experience won't be successful at increasing retention. I was just commenting that the current approach hasn't been very successful either.

The issue is, as Fozzie (I think?) put it, that the new player experience (tutorial and NPC starter corps included) points players in the direction of the kind of gameplay that is associated with poor retention. The responsiblity of getting newbies more deeply involved with the game is left almost entirely to other players – some of whom are in NPC corps, most of whom are in player corps.

People generally agree that this is the case, the question is what should be done about it.

On the other hand, you might just be a brain in a jar, so why try anything.

(edit: actually I think it was Rise)