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[Idea] Dual Training , making eve more friendly to lower SP players

First post
Author
Shoxxx
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-05-27 09:47:16 UTC
Hi

I know this is going to be a controversial post but here goes

Eve is 12 years old now and with the time based skill training it is not uncommon to see people with multiple years’ worth of skill points in the same corp as brand new players. With meta changes its not uncommon to see in the same alliance, say gunnery and missile doctrines or minmatar and caldari etc... Now I only have 22 million sp which really means train ship and train weapons to cross for me which for t1 is fairly quick, t2 say a month or two depending on ship level but for new characters it's not exactly great at all.

The main holdup are the V skills that are pre-requisites for example “Drones V” but not “Rapid Launch V” locking a person into the skill for some time when there is still plenty to learn.

Why not allow the following, "Skill Lock"

Basically you have a button on your training queue that will "lock" the skill into training until end of current level, and then you can continue training your normal queue ? So person goes "I want to fly a flycatcher, I really need to get Propulsion Jamming V but I could use getting some missile skills up and there is also that Caldari Destroyers V". They train propulsion jamming to IV and when it gets to that 17 day V they lock that skill in. The person can then continue to train their Caldari Destroyers or support skills.
If they change their mind and decide to go a different direction, tough propulsion jamming will need to complete before they can lock a new skill.

It will allow a person to get to that T2 ship and actually be able to fly it with some semi decent supporting skills, after all the ship is nothing without pilot skill and supporting skills.
Mashie Saldana
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#2 - 2015-05-27 09:50:28 UTC
Mag's
Azn Empire
#3 - 2015-05-27 09:56:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Mashie Saldana wrote:
No.
This.

Plus wrong forum, plus Malcanis Law, plus reported.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Jack Morrison
Team Liquid crp.
#4 - 2015-05-27 10:07:08 UTC
This discussion comes up every now and then.
This time i will take a bit more time to explain.

1)Reward factor
What do you think is more rewarding, finally getting to fly a hull you laid eyes upon a month or so ago or to get another 2% drone damage / gun bonus.
You lose this feeling after 3-4 years which is a shame.

2)Char. bazaar
If you can't wait and feel like you need to fly something instantly, go grind ISK (incursions, faction warfare...etc.) and buy another character.Believe it or not - you can make a fortune in 1-2 months and can buy characters that are years old (while only investing the said 1-2 months).

3) Fun can be had outside of T2/T3/capital ships
If you are not having fun, because you feel like you are useless or can't fly anything that is asked for - change the group you are flying with, try some NPSI (spectre fleet, RVB ganked).

You are welcome o7

Looking for a group to pew with ? Have a chat with me.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-05-27 10:58:56 UTC

Quote:
New Players left out. Drones V is unfair.

CCP Falcon wrote:
No one ever promised that EVE was going to be fair. The odds are stacked against you, and you have to train to overcome them.

The Drones skill has functioned this way for the last decade. Training it to V like everyone else will enable people to field 5 drones.



From: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3237867#post3237867

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#6 - 2015-05-27 11:26:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Quote:
LOL

Like, I don't wanna level guys.
Boosts plz?!
Boosting is too slow!
Hey, they brought out level 55 toons! Selling us power!
Still too much levelling!
Can I just have max level character with all end game gear equipped and have no goals or developing achievements?! PLZ!
Waste of Web type thinking.
They should revert just your characters to learning skill days.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

ISD Supogo
ISD BH
#7 - 2015-05-27 13:17:47 UTC
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD BH Supogo

Bughunter

Equipment Certification and Anomaly Investigations Division (ECAID)

Interstellar Services Department

Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#8 - 2015-05-27 13:21:00 UTC
.. You sure it was a good idea to move it here?
inb4 F&I shitstorm
Also, no
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#9 - 2015-05-27 14:07:58 UTC
NO

I was told by wise veteran pilots years ago when I joined EvE not to train any lvl 5 skills unless needed as a pre-req for at least your first 12 - 18 months the only exception they mentioned was drones V as you need to be able to have 5 drones in space if your ship allows. Almost 6 years later that logic and that thought process is just as valid in today's EvE as it was back then.

I agree with the statement if you cannot fly something your corp/alliance wants you to fly then you need to have a discussion with your FC / directors / CEO about finding a role that "you can fill" based on your skills set. If they are not willing to do that then move on to another corp / alliance because the group you are in has lost sight of how to help new / newer players and is only focused on "what they want".

No, because where does it stop?
A friend just started the game and at 2.5 million SP he wants CCP to make it faster and easier to train for the ships he wants.
At 10 million SP a corp member wants CCP to make it faster and easier to train for the ships he wants to fly.
At 22 million SP you want CCP to make it faster and easier to train for the ships you want.
At 90 million SP I want EvE to make it faster and easier for me to train for the ships I want.
At over 100 million SP my son wants CCP to make it faster and easier to train for what he wants to fly.

At every step in this progression players always justify moving the cut off on these faster / easier training ideas up to whatever level of SP they have. Can you see where this is going? If CCP gave in to these ideas sooner or later you will have 1 week old tunes flying titans if they have the ISK to buy them.

I know this will sound really harsh but I believe that CCP has made it to easy on new players skills wise, with the boosts free remaps etc they help to set up and reinforce an entitlement attitude that is not good for the game. Like real life EvE is hard and you have to work for everything you get and that is exactly how it show and needs to be.
Panty Stocking
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-05-27 14:23:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Panty Stocking
Donnachadh wrote:
NO

I was told by wise veteran pilots years ago when I joined EvE not to train any lvl 5 skills unless needed as a pre-req for at least your first 12 - 18 months the only exception they mentioned was drones V as you need to be able to have 5 drones in space if your ship allows. Almost 6 years later that logic and that thought process is just as valid in today's EvE as it was back then.

I agree with the statement if you cannot fly something your corp/alliance wants you to fly then you need to have a discussion with your FC / directors / CEO about finding a role that "you can fill" based on your skills set. If they are not willing to do that then move on to another corp / alliance because the group you are in has lost sight of how to help new / newer players and is only focused on "what they want".

No, because where does it stop?
A friend just started the game and at 2.5 million SP he wants CCP to make it faster and easier to train for the ships he wants.
At 10 million SP a corp member wants CCP to make it faster and easier to train for the ships he wants to fly.
At 22 million SP you want CCP to make it faster and easier to train for the ships you want.
At 90 million SP I want EvE to make it faster and easier for me to train for the ships I want.
At over 100 million SP my son wants CCP to make it faster and easier to train for what he wants to fly.

At every step in this progression players always justify moving the cut off on these faster / easier training ideas up to whatever level of SP they have. Can you see where this is going? If CCP gave in to these ideas sooner or later you will have 1 week old tunes flying titans if they have the ISK to buy them.

I know this will sound really harsh but I believe that CCP has made it to easy on new players skills wise, with the boosts free remaps etc they help to set up and reinforce an entitlement attitude that is not good for the game. Like real life EvE is hard and you have to work for everything you get and that is exactly how it show and needs to be.


Shitstorm averted, this covers it all, really.
Since it was moved to f&I, there is a skill point sticky. Even if it is about buying/remapping your idea might get a better response.
Unlikely though.

Edit* just in case it doesn't cover enough points for you, here is an excellent breakdown of the system: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=406047
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#11 - 2015-05-27 15:23:08 UTC
WUT?

What are tyou even asking? you want to be allowed train 2 skills at the same time? how does that not just let me train 2 carriers at the same time?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#12 - 2015-05-27 15:35:33 UTC
No, for all the excellent reasons listed above.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Iain Cariaba
#13 - 2015-05-27 15:43:42 UTC
No.

That feeling of uselessness comes from you, not the game. I look through the sub-cap doctrine fleet setups for The Imperium, and you know, there's t1 frigs and cruisers in pretty much all of them. Additionally, I've never heard an FC tell a newbee in a t1 frig that the couldn't come along on a fleet as tackle.

Sure, you can't grind lvl 4 missions, run incursions, or farm 10/10s after two weeks, but you can damn sure get in on the action pretty quick.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2015-05-27 20:15:28 UTC
so train 2 skills at once?


no

and the time it takes to get into a t2 ship is good and called progression


if you were at a major disadvantage not being able to fly t2 i would be all for this but your not
Lugh Crow-Slave
#15 - 2015-05-27 20:25:03 UTC
also i know an ISD moved it hear but SP discussions already has a sticky on this page so its a bit redundant
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
Lost Obsession
#16 - 2015-05-27 23:17:34 UTC
Absolutely not.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#17 - 2015-05-28 01:03:03 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
NO

I was told by wise veteran pilots years ago when I joined EvE not to train any lvl 5 skills unless needed as a pre-req for at least your first 12 - 18 months the only exception they mentioned was drones V as you need to be able to have 5 drones in space if your ship allows. Almost 6 years later that logic and that thought process is just as valid in today's EvE as it was back then.

I agree with the statement if you cannot fly something your corp/alliance wants you to fly then you need to have a discussion with your FC / directors / CEO about finding a role that "you can fill" based on your skills set. If they are not willing to do that then move on to another corp / alliance because the group you are in has lost sight of how to help new / newer players and is only focused on "what they want".

No, because where does it stop?
A friend just started the game and at 2.5 million SP he wants CCP to make it faster and easier to train for the ships he wants.
At 10 million SP a corp member wants CCP to make it faster and easier to train for the ships he wants to fly.
At 22 million SP you want CCP to make it faster and easier to train for the ships you want.
At 90 million SP I want EvE to make it faster and easier for me to train for the ships I want.
At over 100 million SP my son wants CCP to make it faster and easier to train for what he wants to fly.

At every step in this progression players always justify moving the cut off on these faster / easier training ideas up to whatever level of SP they have. Can you see where this is going? If CCP gave in to these ideas sooner or later you will have 1 week old tunes flying titans if they have the ISK to buy them.

I know this will sound really harsh but I believe that CCP has made it to easy on new players skills wise, with the boosts free remaps etc they help to set up and reinforce an entitlement attitude that is not good for the game. Like real life EvE is hard and you have to work for everything you get and that is exactly how it show and needs to be.

Quoting for posterity.

(and for easier searching)