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Tengu PVP fittings
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Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-05-25 01:35:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb
Fellow capsuleers,


Recently I've been experimenting with different Tengu PVP fits.
There are three things which got my attention:

- Active or Buffer tank?
- MWD or AB (10/100MN AB?)
- Disruptor or Scramler

I have four different fits which I will explain one by one.
No boosters, implants or any other performance boosters have been used except for CPU/PWG implants.


Fit #1 - 669DPS 91.3K EHP tank 1.5K m/s (100MN)
Low agility and hard to slingshot with. Disruptor or Scrambler? I have no clue which one to use, it'd be hard to get within scram range if enemy has a MWD. DPS and tank are fine for PVP I suppose. Cap stable however only on 47% leaves it vulnerable to neuts.

Fit #2 - 709DPS 709.7HP/S tank 616 m/s (10MN)
Better agility however the speed is limited. Would be hard to slingshot and once again get into range. I figure a scram would be best, but getting in range would be a problem. Could go faction scram but once again 11K range isn't that much against a kiter. Capstable at 67.3% with a capbooster so it could 'fight off' some neuting pressure.

Fit #3 - 803DPS 686,8HP/S tank 616 m/s (10MN)
Same agility as #2, same story with speed and tackle. DPS is higher (~+100) and tank is only 20HP/S less which I'm not worried about. However it's only capstable at 31% instead of 67.3% and cap pressure would be an issue.

Fit #4 - 803DPS 95K EHP tank 616 m/s (10MN)
Buffer version of fit # 3. Capstable at 56.4% leaving it vulnerable to any neuts because it has no capbooster. Same story with speed as fit #2 and 3.

EDIT:

I tried to 'merge' these fits and managed to make a dualprop fit.

Fit #5 - 709DPS 540HP/S tank 524 & 1315 m/s (AB/MWD)

Both AB and MWD gives me some control in the fights and will make range pulling/closing distance way more easier. The only thing I'm worried about with this fit is the tank, instead of 700HP/S this one only has 540HP/S because it does not have a shield boost amplifier. Is 540HP/S enough, or do I need to drop a web and replace it with a shield boost amp?


____
Now that I've explained every fit my questions are:

Should I keep an AB or switch to a MWD? MWD would get more cap pressure and would make the active fits harder to fit, which will probably lower the DPS. The 100MN one looks fine however the DPS is already slightly lower than the others, and the agility sucks.

Do I need to go active or buffer? Active makes me able to fight for a longer period of time however if the incoming DPS is too high I can't keep up. Buffer will leave me worryless about incoming DPS since I just have to let it run, and get out when the tank is about to drop. Problem would be that I have no cap boosters and any neuting ship could just neut me out, thus dropping my propmods, tackles and invulnerability fields.


Thanks in advance and hopefully someone will be able to help me!
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-05-25 02:09:26 UTC
What or Where do you plan on PvPing?

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-05-25 02:13:15 UTC
Solo PVP, mainly lowsec.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2015-05-25 02:33:04 UTC
My 2 cents:

There's not really one 'do all' fit.
The most important thing for you is being selective in who you target. You can't just fly into random fleets and hope it all works out.
You have to pick targets that your fit matches up well with.

100 MN AB is pretty famous and does pretty good. 100 MN is not about agility. It's a gtfo mod that lets you burn away when things go sour.
I've flown a 10MN MWD fit that did good, but I hand picked my targets. That was when Heavies were still useable, so long point, heavies, active tank.

Buffer Tengu is bad.
Active with a Large rep and crystals is what I like.
Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-05-25 09:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb
Indeed I agree active tank would be the best, but once again mobility would be limited then.
100MN AB works out pretty good, but it's impossible to fith both a 100MN and an active tank.

Could you maybe link me one of these 10MN fits?
EDIT:

Added fit #5 dualprop (see beginpost).
Only problem now would be the tank, is 540HP/S enough? I don't have the original 700HPS/S anymore becaues of not having a shield boost amplifier. Drop a webifier and replace it with a shield boost amplifier or keep it this way?
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#6 - 2015-05-25 15:44:35 UTC
100mn hams is around the regular fit.
Some fly it with one nano and a DCU,
some got DCU and a polycarb instead of the bay thruster,
some prefer dualwebs instead of the hardener,
some fit only a c-type med SB because you're usually not taking a lot of damage to start with and
some even take a scrambler over the em-ward or replace the em-rig with a second bay thruster/rigor/flare II.
Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-05-25 17:03:21 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
100mn hams is around the regular fit.
Some fly it with one nano and a DCU,
some got DCU and a polycarb instead of the bay thruster,
some prefer dualwebs instead of the hardener,
some fit only a c-type med SB because you're usually not taking a lot of damage to start with and
some even take a scrambler over the em-ward or replace the em-rig with a second bay thruster/rigor/flare II.


That's quite the fit!

However that 365HP/S is what worries me, isn't that a bit low when you look at what most of these PVP'ers get to handle?
Also the DPS is ~150 lower than the others, and if I compare it to the dualprop fit it really lacks in DPS and tank. I have no idea wether that 700HP/S will make a huge difference against the 500HP/S now that I see this 350HP/S. Is that enough?

I think it's a great fit but what exactly makes it better than my dualprop fit? I know the dualprop only goes 500/1300 ms but the DPS, tank and agility is better (and so is it in price).

However the 100MN can be webbed and still go about 700'ish while the AB frmo the dual would drop to 200. Is this really worth that extra speed? The DPS would already be low in my opinion.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#8 - 2015-05-25 20:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?eid=26358078

This is a ship I did a fair amount of fights with. Again, I selected my targets back then when possible.
These guys caught me in a faction wars complex, where the rats had me damped down to -16km targeting. I never got 1 shot off at them, yet I had burned far away from the rats and couldn't kill them either.
A slow helpless death it was :(

The ceptor pilot had me from 60km. T2 Heavies won't even fly that far these days.
The Rapiers slowed me to a crawl, and the Nado just pounded away, along with about 12-15 rats as well.
They were a perfect Tengu killing fleet, but I would have had a good chance if I could have targeted them.

Edit here: DPS is not at all what your HAMs will do, but range and target selection were what made that ship good.
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#9 - 2015-05-26 03:20:46 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?eid=26358078

This is a ship I did a fair amount of fights with. Again, I selected my targets back then when possible.
These guys caught me in a faction wars complex, where the rats had me damped down to -16km targeting. I never got 1 shot off at them, yet I had burned far away from the rats and couldn't kill them either.
A slow helpless death it was :(

The ceptor pilot had me from 60km. T2 Heavies won't even fly that far these days.
The Rapiers slowed me to a crawl, and the Nado just pounded away, along with about 12-15 rats as well.
They were a perfect Tengu killing fleet, but I would have had a good chance if I could have targeted them.

Edit here: DPS is not at all what your HAMs will do, but range and target selection were what made that ship good.


holy **** is this a joke?

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#10 - 2015-05-26 04:05:22 UTC
God's Apples wrote:


holy **** is this a joke?


Nah man, I had a lot of fun with that ship. It was basically a PVE ship with a point.
Great tank and barely more than a T2 fit.
Titus Heldane
The Vomit Comets
#11 - 2015-05-26 15:50:06 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
God's Apples wrote:


holy **** is this a joke?


Nah man, I had a lot of fun with that ship. It was basically a PVE ship with a point.
Great tank and barely more than a T2 fit.


that fit is absolutely horrible. HMLs are ****, CCCs on a pvp ship are useless, you have a cloak, why? you have an emergent locus sub while you dont have a scanner, your tank is very low, so is your dps. this is a bad PVE fit with a point, making it an absolutely awful PVP fit.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#12 - 2015-05-26 17:53:01 UTC
I prefer passive PVP fits since nuets are one of the most common utility pvp modules in the game

This gives the tengu a double benefit, no need for cap to shoot, no need for cap to tank, only needed for extra propulsion, which isnt such an issue with the nano fibers subsystem.

All you need to do is be careful enough to not engage something that will snap your tank and your golden

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Valkin Mordirc
#13 - 2015-05-26 17:59:37 UTC
Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
100mn hams is around the regular fit.
Some fly it with one nano and a DCU,
some got DCU and a polycarb instead of the bay thruster,
some prefer dualwebs instead of the hardener,
some fit only a c-type med SB because you're usually not taking a lot of damage to start with and
some even take a scrambler over the em-ward or replace the em-rig with a second bay thruster/rigor/flare II.


That's quite the fit!

However that 365HP/S is what worries me, isn't that a bit low when you look at what most of these PVP'ers get to handle?
Also the DPS is ~150 lower than the others, and if I compare it to the dualprop fit it really lacks in DPS and tank. I have no idea wether that 700HP/S will make a huge difference against the 500HP/S now that I see this 350HP/S. Is that enough?

I think it's a great fit but what exactly makes it better than my dualprop fit? I know the dualprop only goes 500/1300 ms but the DPS, tank and agility is better (and so is it in price).

However the 100MN can be webbed and still go about 700'ish while the AB frmo the dual would drop to 200. Is this really worth that extra speed? The DPS would already be low in my opinion.




Thats probably the best solo 100mn fit you can get.

Use the web defensively.

The 100mn laughs in the face of webs and scrams. You carry so much momentum you just coast out of web range. Remember when you're running the 100mn you get a mass increase which makes it slower for you to speed up but also mean your slower to slow down.

The DPS tank on it doesn't need to be high because you should be outside of most ships optimal anyways.

And for DPS, 600 is pretty decent you can break most tanks with that. If you can't then you can easily disengage,
#DeleteTheWeak
Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-05-26 22:25:46 UTC
I just fit up the dualprop tengu (fit 5) and it's DPS is good.
Tried fighting a corp mate, he was in a 400DPS stratios with neuts.

He eventually neuted me out (2 mediums 1 small) and my shield booster only boosts a "meh" 600 per cycle.
Pyfa tells me 540HP/S but it does 600/3 = 200 per second.

Stratios was buffer fit, eventually he would have won because my rep couldnt keep up with 2 gecko's (???)
If I would use that 100MN fit with a medium booster how would that even win if this large X-type can't tank a stratios?

In all these PVP videos on youtube you see a solo tengu tank a couple of cruisers while killing them one by one..
Am I doing something wrong? This ship has more DPS and tank than the 100MN and already can't even win against one other cruiser...
Paranoid Loyd
#15 - 2015-05-26 22:31:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
He won't be doing **** for DPS if you shoot his drones...

PYFA is showing adjusted numbers that account for EHP.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-05-26 22:53:27 UTC
True, but I didn't want to blow up his 100M drones since it was just a test.
In a real fight I would of course shoot drones. He had a reactive armor hardener and a buffer fit so instead of ~500 volley (with resists on ofc) I would only do 200 each volley after.

Figured that when I kite I'm fine for the neuts...
But still, in these PVP video's they tank alot of DPS and are webbed/scrammed, basically pinned down. Then how come my tank doesn't even keep up for 400DPS?

Last thing, what is that EHP/S then? It boosts a solid 560HP/S, and when I put on another adaptive invul it says 700 (example). What is that supposed to mean then, resists won't increase the amount of HP this large X-type will boost.
Paranoid Loyd
#17 - 2015-05-26 23:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb wrote:
resists won't increase the amount of HP this large X-type will boost.
Correct, but the increase in resists gives you an increase in effective HPs and that increase is taken into account to determine the effective increase from the reppers. You are not taking as much damage due to the resists, so it can be stated the the repair is effectively higher due to mitigated damage.


EHP = 1/(1-r) * h

h= hitpoints

r= resists

Your effective omni-resists are 67.875%

Your actual repair is 173.4375/s

so 1/(1-.67875) * 173.4375 = 539.8833

Keep in mind these numbers are all for maxed lvl 5 pilots, if you don't have max skills your results will vary.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Cap'n Rick Clusterbomb
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-05-27 00:35:57 UTC
I don't have all V but the effecting skills for these cases are similar to mine which happen to be V.
Anyways, I think I'm going for a kiting fit now that I've seen what this brawling fit does. Having that 10MN AB to "get out of scrams" is totally usesess since it only goes 200m/s when webbed and another 10MN can just keep up.

Will consider that 100MN however I'm still worried about the tank, I figure 600DPS is still acceptable then since I get to pick fights. But if this large X-type can't even keep up against 400DPS what will that medium do then? I'll just die to anything bigger than a frigate.
Paranoid Loyd
#19 - 2015-05-27 00:43:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
The 10mn AB is not for getting out of scrams, the 100mn is. The 10mn is useful for orbiting fast so that incoming damage is mitigated, this unfortunately is not effective against Geckos as they track very well. It can also be useful for getting back to the gate if you get scrammed at an in-gate and want to bail.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-05-27 06:14:42 UTC
Don't look for PvP in a Tengu unless its as part of a gang. It's not designed for that and generally isn't going to be good at it. HML's suck right now and HAM's won't hit smaller ships for much damage. Could do the rail Tengu, but meh.
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