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Dev Blog: Textures, Shaders, and Dirt, Oh My!

First post First post
Author
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#141 - 2015-05-25 20:02:27 UTC
The "rust" could just be a natural color variation to the materials used, which the Amarr/Caldari latched onto, to use as a taunt. The Minmatar adopted the term in pride, as a display of defiance. Making fun of our ships? Meh. We'll join in on the joke and own it.

I'm not sure if I like the look of it though. Orange splotchiness... it's close in effect to giving the entire Minmatar fleet camouflage paint. And I am not a fan of camouflage paint. I think some of the TQ Minmatar ships could use a little variation in color, particularly the capital ships. On Tranquility they currently look like they are made out of Hersey's chocolate bars - monotone, sterile, waxy... But the test server probably overdoes it.

As for the dirt, it can look cool I think. But it could become an annoying feature. Having the clean your ship all the time if you don't like the look of it would be a drag. Even worse if there is a fee. Maybe just make it a free SKIN that you can toggle. So it would just add some variation to the ships, and people can RP whatever reason they want to explain the dirtiness.

Or just make the dirt skins cost aurum and milk your players some more.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#142 - 2015-05-26 12:04:33 UTC
The dirty Bowhead and Stratios look great. Cool

Apoc looks unImperial, but heheh. A value of 66-75% for all would be more subtle in my opinion.
Memphis Baas
#143 - 2015-05-26 13:52:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
From a technical standpoint: good job.

From a utility or "fun" point of view, you're refusing to give us the shiny new colors we asked for, and are instead adding dirt, grime, and rust to the ships, to basically make them look uglier. So, meh.

Speculation: We keep bringing up "shipwash" services, but CCP hasn't really announced anything. So I'm guessing that the "how dirty it is" timer will just be based on how many days have passed since the ship was assembled. Which means:

1. We have to annoyingly repackage ships (and then re-fit them) to "wash" them.
2. A really dirty ship is an indicator that it has rigs.

CCP, you should add dirt to our avatar faces, to indicate that we haven't been podded in a while (and still have our implants).
CCP Sledgehammer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#144 - 2015-05-26 16:11:27 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
From a technical standpoint: good job.

From a utility or "fun" point of view, you're refusing to give us the shiny new colors we asked for, and are instead adding dirt, grime, and rust to the ships, to basically make them look uglier. So, meh.

Speculation: We keep bringing up "shipwash" services, but CCP hasn't really announced anything. So I'm guessing that the "how dirty it is" timer will just be based on how many days have passed since the ship was assembled. Which means:

1. We have to annoyingly repackage ships (and then re-fit them) to "wash" them.
2. A really dirty ship is an indicator that it has rigs.

CCP, you should add dirt to our avatar faces, to indicate that we haven't been podded in a while (and still have our implants).


Just want to clear up some misunderstandings here:

We are not allowing ships to accrue dirt just yet. This is just the initial deployment of the tech and texture work that will allow for that in the future.

Similarly, there is no way to modify your dirt levels by repackaging and reassembling your ships.

Graphical QA Analyst | EVE Quality Assurance | Team TriLambda

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#145 - 2015-05-26 17:38:00 UTC
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#146 - 2015-05-26 19:06:46 UTC
Machariel still looks too brown, needs to be more dark themed like it was in the old days.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#147 - 2015-05-26 19:17:49 UTC
Do you not see players getting upset when they buy a ship on market and find it is already dirty? Have you tested/considered whether this will make ships unstackable, like BPCs, now that ships carry a persistent, unique point of data?
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#148 - 2015-05-26 19:39:36 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Do you not see players getting upset when they buy a ship on market and find it is already dirty?


Like a Venture, flown for the very first time?

TBH I'm not sure why you're complaining about this now. It's not new.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#149 - 2015-05-26 19:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Because this is the first confirmation I've seen that dirt will or won't be reversible through repackaging. I thought for sure, there would be a way to reset the dirt. Isn't it logical to expect that, with the attention SKINs and ship appearance has received recently.

I'm not complaining. I'm asking whether it was considered.
Celise Katelo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#150 - 2015-05-26 20:01:58 UTC
Er... could we get a new type of drone Shocked

A drone that can clean your ship, when it is dirty. Blink ...add in some skills to learn & then we can charge other players for cleaning service P

EVEBoard ...Just over 60million skill points, each skill was chosen for a reason. I closed my eyes & clicked another skill to train... "BINGO...!!!" ... "This time i got something usefull"

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2015-05-26 20:15:55 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Because this is the first confirmation I've seen that dirt will or won't be reversible through repackaging. I thought for sure, there would be a way to reset the dirt. Isn't it logical to expect that, with the attention SKINs and ship appearance has received recently.

I'm not complaining. I'm asking whether it was considered.

Am I missing something? The current implementation is using a static dirt value per my understanding and not degrading over time. There effectively isn't anything to reset unless I've overlooked some details.

If/when dirt becomes variable I'd be upset if there were no ways to reverse it, but for now what we've seen of the ships as they are launching leaves me quite satisfied.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#152 - 2015-05-26 21:19:25 UTC
Maybe I'm the one missing something. I thought the dirt would vary over time, which struck me as a cool concept but disconnected from gameplay. A blanket dirt amount is even more so. A "dumb" feature that might as well be announced as "ships are going to be dirty."

What I think would be nice is something that reflected gameplay, like residue from an environment like a wormhole. I've pretended for RP that my gang was covered in wormhole dust after returning to K-space.

If you like all ships looking like they were lifted from a swamp on Dagobah, I can understand it. I can understand why devs thought dirt was worth having. I also think it opposes the shiny new look that I prefer.

It's just how it will be, I guess.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#153 - 2015-05-26 21:45:23 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Maybe I'm the one missing something. I thought the dirt would vary over time, which struck me as a cool concept but disconnected from gameplay. A blanket dirt amount is even more so. A "dumb" feature that might as well be announced as "ships are going to be dirty."

EVE Ships already have had, for years, dirt on their surfaces.

Nothing is changing in this regard, other than that we have laid the technical groundwork for that amount of dirt to vary, should someone wish to implement such a feature in the future. Such a feature has not been designed and to my knowledge it's development has not been scheduled.

Note that, as of right now, the ONLY difference between High and Medium shader settings, both now and with the upcoming Carnyx release, is the presence of that dirt pass, so if you prefer the look of the ships in the game without dirt, you may set your shader settings to "Medium." I cannot promise that at some point in the distant future there may not be other differences between "High" and "Medium" shader settings, but for right now, that's a workaround that addresses what you don't like about the look of ships in the game.

As for "refusing to give us the shiny new colors we asked for," I recommend keeping an eye on future SKIN announcements rather than assuming that we can simply snap our fingers, like magic, and wish instantly new SKINs into being. If only it were that simple.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Alexis Nightwish
#154 - 2015-05-26 22:01:33 UTC
CCP Antiquarian wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
tbh the slider thingies confuse the hell out of me. Is "after" the picture when you slide it to the right where "after" stands or is it the other way around where you slide the after picture over the before picture. Cry


It's not tremendously intuitive. Moving the bar to the left reveals the V5++ image. The labels are for the sides of the picture, not an indicator for the slider. I looked at them initially and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Using the Dirt pics as a guide is helpful.


Perhaps next time you guys showcase the cool stuff you should put the label on the image itself so that when the slider is all the way to the left it reads "Sample A" or whatever on the left side of the image. Then for the other image "Sample B" is on the right side which can only be read when the slider is all the way to the right.

Example

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#155 - 2015-05-26 22:24:56 UTC
It's news to me that ships have had dirt for years, thanks for the heads up.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#156 - 2015-05-26 22:50:19 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
It's news to me that ships have had dirt for years, thanks for the heads up.


You forgot to thank me for my dirt-free workaround :)

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

ToshioMagic
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#157 - 2015-05-26 22:54:48 UTC
I know its 8 pages in, but as a graphic designer and computer programmer, I think this change is a work of art. Absolutely beautiful not just in the presentation but in the backend work to make it happen. I think these in depth art/coding dev blogs are pretty unique to the Eve community but I enjoy them the most. Much better than reading page after page of (much needed) sov changes :P.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#158 - 2015-05-26 22:57:37 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
It's news to me that ships have had dirt for years, thanks for the heads up.


You forgot to thank me for my dirt-free workaround :)

So the medium setting without dirt will be cleaner than the current look which has dirt? That is worth being thankful for.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#159 - 2015-05-26 23:24:44 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
As for "refusing to give us the shiny new colors we asked for," I recommend keeping an eye on future SKIN announcements rather than assuming that we can simply snap our fingers, like magic, and wish instantly new SKINs into being. If only it were that simple.
So the online ship viewer that lets us pick any ship with any color combo... or the session at fanfest where the dev was asking people to pick ships/colors and rendering them on the spot... guess it really is too difficult and time consuming to set up a new SKIN.

But since CCP ignored most of the feedback about how to correctly implement the SKIN system from day 1 of initial idea feedback on the terribad BPCs through this new system, I guess we shouldn't really expect much in the way of understanding and consideration for players thoughts. Heck, they didn't just not use ANY of the feedback from those many threadnaughts, they went off in a completely new and different direction nobody in those threads ever thought about, and they did it terrible too.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#160 - 2015-05-26 23:58:22 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
So the online ship viewer that lets us pick any ship with any color combo... or the session at fanfest where the dev was asking people to pick ships/colors and rendering them on the spot... guess it really is too difficult and time consuming to set up a new SKIN.


The slow part of writing a novel isn't the typing. :)

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins