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[June] [Updated] Module Tiericide - Afterburners & Microwarpdrives

First post First post
Author
Predator BOA
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#381 - 2015-05-20 02:08:19 UTC
Gday all.

I like the idea with the new changes here but i can't get my head around one of them here.


Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner [Meta Level 16 (+3); Powergrid 625; CPU 65 (-1); Activation 290 (+49); Velocity Bonus 165 (+6)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner [Meta Level 16 (+3); Powergrid 813 (+63); CPU 50; Activation 290 (-30); Velocity Bonus 165 (+3)%; Overload Bonus 50%]


Are all well and good but the Activation cost is more than an 500MD.
Yes i know some have and Cap Penalty to some of them that are fine and i repect that.
But the:
Core X-Type 500MN Microwarpdrive [Meta Level 16 (+3); Powergrid 1250; CPU 98 (-2); Activation 280 (-44); Cap Penalty 0; Signature Bonus 390 (-32)%; Velocity Bonus 520 (+20)%; Overload Bonus 50%]

Has less Activation of 280 and Zero Cap Penalty than the same one in the Afterburner

Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner [Meta Level 16 (+3); Powergrid 625; CPU 65 (-1); Activation 290 (+49); Velocity Bonus 165 (+6)%; Overload Bonus 50%]

We are not getting any trade-offs apart from fitting
The Afterburner has:

Lower activation cost then the MWD in the same class
No capacitor penalty
No signature penalty
Easier fitting requirements
Don't turn off when Warp Scrambled
And yes, slower
Why is the Core X-Type 500MN Microwarpdrive has better Activation of 280 then Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner of 290?
Doesn't look right to me.
Zappity
Kurved Trading
#382 - 2015-05-20 10:34:39 UTC
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#383 - 2015-05-20 13:51:58 UTC

Very interesting, would like to see the official post in here regarding those shield and armour changes.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#384 - 2015-05-20 15:01:22 UTC
Quote:
  • 'Barbican' 800mm Reinforced Steel Plates I => 'Barbican' 800mm Steel Plates
  • Attributes:
  • armorHPBonusAdd: 2103 => 2400
  • cpu: 20 => 23
  • massAddition: 1500000 => 1250000
  • power: 180 => 195

  • Welp, there goes one super-seksi setup PG-wise. Sad What is the point of these Storyline plates again? Roll It costs 250 mil to build them.

    Head up to anyone sitting on LP: Imperial Navy/Federation Navy 800mm/1600mm plates just went up several times in price - you'll get over 3000 ISK / LP if you cash in now. Bear
    Xindi Kraid
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #385 - 2015-05-21 05:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
    I tend to agree that meta being all around better than T1 is a bad thing.

    They should be better than T1 in some way, but I think the problem is you have to take a look at the main purpose of the module and the stat that most directly affects that.

    In this case, there is little reason to choose a T1 MWD/AB since all the meta modules have a better speed boost with other varying bonuses. It would probably be much better to have the current types keep the same speed bonus as a T1, and add a fourth type of MWD/AB that has the speed boost, but otherwise the same stats as the T1.

    It's likely most ships will still use the meta variations, but it does even the playing field a BIT toward T1 still being viable.


    This should hold true for all meta variations after metacide: only have the module improved in the one specific aspect.
    Agent Orange7
    Dreddit
    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    #386 - 2015-05-21 05:59:13 UTC
    Please change it so that the type name is before any flavor text, that way instead of "1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner" it is "1MN Compact Y-S8 Afterburner" so that it is easier to search for specific types.
    Xindi Kraid
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #387 - 2015-05-21 06:13:00 UTC
    I'd actually say put it at the front, so we would have eg. Y-S8 Compact 1MN Afterburner, so we can search for "Compact 1MN Afterburner" or "1MN afterburner"

    How often do you search for all sizes of a certain type rather than all types of a certain size?
    per
    Terpene Conglomerate
    Two Maidens One Chalice
    #388 - 2015-05-21 10:47:00 UTC
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

    An Atron getting shot at by a light missile Kestrel, takes about 40% less damage if he's ABing instead of MWDing, excluding any webs/painters/fleet bonuses/etc.


    and he will probably die taking 40% dmg less ;)
    if you fit mwd on that atron instead youll get some dmg reduction as well at max speed (not including "broken links" or overheat that will be totally different story) and you will be able to catch that kestrel or run away unlike with ab ;)

    but yeah ab's are still usefull in some situations
    Arla Sarain
    #389 - 2015-05-21 11:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

    An Atron getting shot at by a light missile Kestrel, takes about 40% less damage if he's ABing instead of MWDing, excluding any webs/painters/fleet bonuses/etc.


    Reality is the Atron will get webbed if the kestrel is ABing, maybe even double webbed to take advantage of furies. The Atron will get kited if the kestrel is MWD fit and lose.

    In either case the 40% dmg reduction is as superfluous as micro shield extenders.
    Iroquoiss Pliskin
    9B30FF Labs
    #390 - 2015-05-21 12:33:45 UTC
    This thought came up how to balance ABs relative to MWDs: Increase the Overheat bonus on ABs, decrease it on MWDs. Cool

    Currently it is a flat 50% for everything.
    Masao Kurata
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #391 - 2015-05-21 15:02:26 UTC
    Rather than deciding the word order to make searching more convenient, change the market search to be initial substrings of words with any number of words between the search terms. Writing the code to make a regular expression from a search string like this takes less than ten minutes.
    Phaade
    Proioxis Assault Force
    Rogue Caldari Union
    #392 - 2015-05-21 16:05:18 UTC
    Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
    This thought came up how to balance ABs relative to MWDs: Increase the Overheat bonus on ABs, decrease it on MWDs. Cool

    Currently it is a flat 50% for everything.


    Not a bad idea.

    I would agree that MWD heat speed increase is kind of crazy, if you overheat the proper cycle and your opponent doesn't there's a good chance you'll catch him.
    Phaade
    Proioxis Assault Force
    Rogue Caldari Union
    #393 - 2015-05-21 16:08:06 UTC
    Arla Sarain wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

    An Atron getting shot at by a light missile Kestrel, takes about 40% less damage if he's ABing instead of MWDing, excluding any webs/painters/fleet bonuses/etc.


    Reality is the Atron will get webbed if the kestrel is ABing, maybe even double webbed to take advantage of furies. The Atron will get kited if the kestrel is MWD fit and lose.

    In either case the 40% dmg reduction is as superfluous as micro shield extenders.



    Null hits scram kiters decently well with an atron....but yes the atron will be webbed, so the AB doesn't actually do a whole lot as far as mitigating damage. It does let you close and out dps the crap out of the kestrel though.

    However If you are flying an MWD atron your purpose is not to brawl with an AB target anyway, it's to chase down would be kiters.
    Iroquoiss Pliskin
    9B30FF Labs
    #394 - 2015-05-21 16:20:43 UTC
    Phaade wrote:
    Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
    This thought came up how to balance ABs relative to MWDs: Increase the Overheat bonus on ABs, decrease it on MWDs. Cool

    Currently it is a flat 50% for everything.


    Not a bad idea.

    I would agree that MWD heat speed increase is kind of crazy, if you overheat the proper cycle and your opponent doesn't there's a good chance you'll catch him.


    OH bonus is a function of base speed bonus, so MWDs gain far more than ABs from a flat 50%.
    Arla Sarain
    #395 - 2015-05-21 18:24:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
    Phaade wrote:
    Arla Sarain wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:

    An Atron getting shot at by a light missile Kestrel, takes about 40% less damage if he's ABing instead of MWDing, excluding any webs/painters/fleet bonuses/etc.


    Reality is the Atron will get webbed if the kestrel is ABing, maybe even double webbed to take advantage of furies. The Atron will get kited if the kestrel is MWD fit and lose.

    In either case the 40% dmg reduction is as superfluous as micro shield extenders.



    Null hits scram kiters decently well with an atron....but yes the atron will be webbed, so the AB doesn't actually do a whole lot as far as mitigating damage. It does let you close and out dps the crap out of the kestrel though.

    However If you are flying an MWD atron your purpose is not to brawl with an AB target anyway, it's to chase down would be kiters.


    I was trying to bring to attention that, any ABing Atron being hit by light missiles already lost, reduced damage or not, because light missiles imply range which in its own flavor implies kite and speed.

    Hence damage reduction from AB is a moot point. If the parallel is drawn to logi ships and such, all that is managed by putting more DPS on the target.

    Again, ABs are silly outside of dual prop fits.
    Should MWDs surpass AB speed at some cost - sure.
    Should it be 2.5 times faster though? Seems absolutely arbitrary that MWDs are faster than ABs to a point where the latter has almost no tactical options in a fight. Why is such segregation "intended". In practice rock,paper, scissors only inspires seasonal FOTMs and not actual "balance".
    Dimitrios Bekas
    Pandemic Horde Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #396 - 2015-05-23 09:27:10 UTC
    PLEASE !!!
    CCP PLEASE !!!

    Make all Names automatically change after the UPDATE....IN ALL saved fittings or quickbar links.

    Its a pain in the ass to now change all fittings that pilots have saved because of those ridiculous Namechanges...


    5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive ???

    5MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive ???

    Why Tags Number holy **** ARGHHHH !

    Change the stats, STAY with the names...and ffs have a tool programmed that changes the names at least without having to update Hundreds of fittings again...personal and corp fittings !!!

    Specia1 K
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #397 - 2015-05-23 17:04:02 UTC
    +1 adding the missing metas to 10mn, 100mn, 50mn and 500mn.

    Not seen is whether any of the reprocessing materials changes for any of the old-->new items.
    Am I safe to assume that reprocessing the existing metas under the new system will yield the same outputs?

    Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

    Thunderdome

    Gevlon Goblin
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #398 - 2015-05-25 14:23:27 UTC
    Federation Navy 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8 (+1); Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 18 (-2); Velocity Bonus 145 (+4)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
    Shadow Serpentis 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8 (+1); Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 18 (-2); Velocity Bonus 145 (+4)%; Overload Bonus 50%]

    These are exact same stats. I think these modules should be merged because they are actually the same item, just under two flavor names.

    My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #399 - 2015-05-25 14:43:37 UTC
    Gevlon Goblin wrote:
    Federation Navy 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8 (+1); Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 18 (-2); Velocity Bonus 145 (+4)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
    Shadow Serpentis 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8 (+1); Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 18 (-2); Velocity Bonus 145 (+4)%; Overload Bonus 50%]

    These are exact same stats. I think these modules should be merged because they are actually the same item, just under two flavor names.


    or make the fed navy one agility based like their plates are.

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

    Iroquoiss Pliskin
    9B30FF Labs
    #400 - 2015-05-25 15:01:09 UTC
    Gevlon Goblin wrote:
    Federation Navy 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8 (+1); Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 18 (-2); Velocity Bonus 145 (+4)%; Overload Bonus 50%]
    Shadow Serpentis 1MN Afterburner [Meta Level 8 (+1); Powergrid 10; CPU 17; Activation 18 (-2); Velocity Bonus 145 (+4)%; Overload Bonus 50%]

    These are exact same stats. I think these modules should be merged because they are actually the same item, just under two flavor names.


    They originate through different means. Has always been so.