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Abolition and Faith
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#181 - 2015-05-24 18:12:38 UTC
Jili Tonari wrote:
So I guess I'm not really a sociopath then.

The can could just as easily been filled with plutonium.

Respectfully, it doesn't sound very much like either of you are sociopaths.

Strong believers in your respective causes, though.

That can result in ... a lot.
Matar Ronin
#182 - 2015-05-24 18:24:56 UTC
No shift in tone by me Pilot Jenneth.

I ended my first statement by saying we were seeking solutions to maintaining the penal colony at a level that is undisputedly humane and far higher than the standards the rest of the cluster allows the slavery cult to imprison Matari people.

Food, housing, and healthcare is provided to all, the wage is credits that allow them to have non-essential items of their choosing which are mostly exchanged as gifts among the population.

Away from the foul influence of the governments of the slavery cult and it's sole stated ally the captives quickly demonstrate the common humanity of the people of the cluster. Caldari men seem quite attracted to the women of the slavery cult and the attraction seems mutual. People form new bonds and affections when they realize their false old lifestyles are no longer viable.

So the minimum wage is relative to their needs, and we basically have them working only so they might impress and improve the lives of their fellow captives, the selfish motivation for gathering resources has been replaced with a selfless desire to want to make the people around you happier.

We choose to not make any profit from their labor output, it is all reinvested in their new community, and so there is no mistake in tone it is a penal colony on a harsh world built underground. We call it the "Land Down Under".

They will remain there until hostilities end between the Matari people and those who seek to be their enemy.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Matar Ronin
#183 - 2015-05-24 18:39:19 UTC
Jili Tonari wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
I rescued them the moment I saw them, the same day you placed them.



So I guess I'm not really a sociopath then.

The can could just as easily been filled with plutonium.


No abolition, no peace.



Pilot Tonari, Jill if you will allow me to address you informally, thank you for your efforts against the enemies of the Matari people.

In the future we will be quite happy to take off your hands any prisoners of combat operations you engage in. We have a safe humane penal colony that will not allow them to return as combatants against the Matari people until a real peace has been established.

We will cover any expenses you incur in maintaining their health until such time we can collect and transport them.

We make that offer to all who fight for the Matari people, do not allow fallen opponents to die in space or be rescued by their allies to once again threaten Matari freedom, transfer them to us and they will humanely be rermoved from any future combat involvements.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#184 - 2015-05-24 18:39:31 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Food, housing, and healthcare is provided to all, the wage is credits that allow them to have non-essential items of their choosing which are mostly exchanged as gifts among the population.


So what you offer is the same thing that slavery in Amarr offers.
Matar Ronin
#185 - 2015-05-24 18:54:14 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Food, housing, and healthcare is provided to all, the wage is credits that allow them to have non-essential items of their choosing which are mostly exchanged as gifts among the population.


So what you offer is the same thing that slavery in Amarr offers.

No dear lost child. We do not insist that they are some lower life form as the slavery cultists do. We do set ourselves up as anointed beings with a divine right to imprison them and strip them of their identity of their very humanity.

We are just the people who had the technology and force of arms to restrict their God given freedom.

Holding them as hostages and prisoners of conflict stains our humanity and we accept that price, but we can not allow them to return to enslave or help maintain a system that enslaves Matari people.

I was born in the not tender embrace of the slavery cult, what they do in the name of their false God is indefensible, something I know from first hand experience. However I am a man of faith and I believe the slavery cult will burn itself out or be extinguished by those it seeks to claim as commodities, and one day a different more humane people descended from this current blight upon humanity will join us as brothers in peace in this cluster we all inhabit.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Max Singularity
House Singularity
Sixth Empire
#186 - 2015-05-24 20:18:14 UTC
I say this...

You... We... Me... are all slaves.

Wake up Capsuleers. Wake up. It's time.

Harbinger of Faith His Holiness Maximilian Singularity VI, Pope of New Eden

First Champion House Kador (defeated) - #MagnateGate

Viceroy Interview & Apostle In Amarr

Max Singularity
House Singularity
Sixth Empire
#187 - 2015-05-24 20:21:10 UTC
And soon...

We may become zombies, if we remain asleep.

Harbinger of Faith His Holiness Maximilian Singularity VI, Pope of New Eden

First Champion House Kador (defeated) - #MagnateGate

Viceroy Interview & Apostle In Amarr

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#188 - 2015-05-24 20:35:06 UTC
Max Singularity wrote:
And soon...

We may become zombies, if we remain asleep.

I get called a zombie often. It's not so bad.
Jili Tonari
Doomheim
#189 - 2015-05-24 21:08:18 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Jili Tonari wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
I rescued them the moment I saw them, the same day you placed them.



So I guess I'm not really a sociopath then.

The can could just as easily been filled with plutonium.


No abolition, no peace.



Pilot Tonari, Jill if you will allow me to address you informally, thank you for your efforts against the enemies of the Matari people.




Matar Ronin,

I see your face. Let's talk sometime soon.



“Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves.”
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#190 - 2015-05-24 21:10:34 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:


As someone who destroys a minimum of 100 military warships of the slavery cultists daily I have amassed quite a number of hostages from their ranks that successfully reached escape pods, additionally we collect many thousands of them with the ground operations of our mercenary clone forces. We have transported them all to the safe confines of a penal planet we established for just such a purpose deep in wormhole space where we subject them to re-education opportunities so they might see the error of their ways.


Fascinating. Sir, you are really learning to think like a proper fanatical amarrian reactionnary.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#191 - 2015-05-25 01:52:28 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
No dear lost child. We do not insist that they are some lower life form as the slavery cultists do. We do set ourselves up as anointed beings with a divine right to imprison them and strip them of their identity of their very humanity.

We are just the people who had the technology and force of arms to restrict their God given freedom.

Holding them as hostages and prisoners of conflict stains our humanity and we accept that price, but we can not allow them to return to enslave or help maintain a system that enslaves Matari people.

I was born in the not tender embrace of the slavery cult, what they do in the name of their false God is indefensible, something I know from first hand experience. However I am a man of faith and I believe the slavery cult will burn itself out or be extinguished by those it seeks to claim as commodities, and one day a different more humane people descended from this current blight upon humanity will join us as brothers in peace in this cluster we all inhabit.

... Interesting.

Pilot, respectfully, I'll stop remarking any further on this topic. I'd kind of forgotten: I had (make that "have") a policy of staying out of these discussions, and I've now remembered why.

Please forgive my interjections. I'll return to ... just observing.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#192 - 2015-05-25 07:05:38 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
We make that offer to all who fight for the Matari people, do not allow fallen opponents to die in space or be rescued by their allies to once again threaten Matari freedom, transfer them to us and they will humanely be rermoved from any future combat involvements.


At present Pyre Falcon does not incarcerate POWs, instead we pass the location of any escape pods to SAR assets in each local system as part of our jump sequence. Inquiries have led me to believe that nobody has attempted to interfere with the timely repatriation of any of our lost crews - in accordance with all the relevant treaties and customs that pertain to civilised peoples.

Should I come to believe that these treaties and customs are no longer being observed I shall have to take matters into my own hands, Matar Ronin. Good Men do not need rules. You do not want to find out why I have so many.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Matar Ronin
#193 - 2015-05-25 15:04:16 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
We make that offer to all who fight for the Matari people, do not allow fallen opponents to die in space or be rescued by their allies to once again threaten Matari freedom, transfer them to us and they will humanely be rermoved from any future combat involvements.


At present Pyre Falcon does not incarcerate POWs, instead we pass the location of any escape pods to SAR assets in each local system as part of our jump sequence. Inquiries have led me to believe that nobody has attempted to interfere with the timely repatriation of any of our lost crews - in accordance with all the relevant treaties and customs that pertain to civilised peoples.

Should I come to believe that these treaties and customs are no longer being observed I shall have to take matters into my own hands, Matar Ronin. Good Men do not need rules. You do not want to find out why I have so many.

What treaties and customs do you refer to while you function as a tool of the slavery cult Pilot Tuulinen? The custom of enslaving Matari people? The treaties that allow the slavers to fly safely throughout New Eden?

To me your statement sounds like a threat, a hollow threat, because you already fight against the Matari with your ally the slavery cult. Your pomposity exceeds your abilities. All enemies of Matari freedom taken in combat operations alive are subject to removal from returning to fight against Matari interests until the cessation of hostilities. We do not leave fallen combatants to the possible rescue of others who may not show up in time or allow the survivors to again actively fight against Matari interests.

We are an independent corp, surely you understand this concept being the lab grown Caldari pilot you are, we have no treaties with the slavery cultists or their allies, and our custom is to visit death and destruction upon them whenever we can.

While your hands are stained with Matari blood and your sword sworn to support the slavery cult against the Matari people save your hollow threats for use against your current ally when they announce it is time to reclaim your state for their false God.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#194 - 2015-05-25 17:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Matar Ronin wrote:
What treaties and customs do you refer to while you function as a tool of the slavery cult Pilot Tuulinen? The custom of enslaving Matari people? The treaties that allow the slavers to fly safely throughout New Eden?

To me your statement sounds like a threat, a hollow threat, because you already fight against the Matari with your ally the slavery cult. Your pomposity exceeds your abilities. All enemies of Matari freedom taken in combat operations alive are subject to removal from returning to fight against Matari interests until the cessation of hostilities. We do not leave fallen combatants to the possible rescue of others who may not show up in time or allow the survivors to again actively fight against Matari interests.

We are an independent corp, surely you understand this concept being the lab grown Caldari pilot you are, we have no treaties with the slavery cultists or their allies, and our custom is to visit death and destruction upon them whenever we can.

While your hands are stained with Matari blood and your sword sworn to support the slavery cult against the Matari people save your hollow threats for use against your current ally when they announce it is time to reclaim your state for their false God.


Save the parlour philosophy for those who are remotely interested - you can't abolish slavery in a State that already doesn't tolerate it. The issue here is purely one of business practices - that of treatment of prisoners, a practice that is wound about with treaties, conventions and customs - despite your pretence of ignorance. My warning is not a grandiose threat to perform some action that is out of our reach. It should be simple enough for you to work out how many POW's Pyre Falcon creates in any given day. Right now most of those POW's make their way back to TLF stations unmolested - I'm telling you that this situation could, at any moment, become so, so different.

Since Freedom is your favourite word, let me pay you the compliment of extending you the freedom to choose what happens here and then let me continue your education with a Caldari concept called 'responsibility for your actions'. I'm not going to get drawn into a specific formula, suffice it to say that for every one of our people you illegally and immorally detain in your concentration camps I will ensure that some number of poor Matari POWs meets an equally dark or darker fate.

Do you really think I'm a Monster, with no conscience and my hands drenched in the blood of the innocent? Why would you unchain me, then?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Matar Ronin
#195 - 2015-05-25 17:20:46 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
What treaties and customs do you refer to while you function as a tool of the slavery cult Pilot Tuulinen? The custom of enslaving Matari people? The treaties that allow the slavers to fly safely throughout New Eden?

To me your statement sounds like a threat, a hollow threat, because you already fight against the Matari with your ally the slavery cult. Your pomposity exceeds your abilities. All enemies of Matari freedom taken in combat operations alive are subject to removal from returning to fight against Matari interests until the cessation of hostilities. We do not leave fallen combatants to the possible rescue of others who may not show up in time or allow the survivors to again actively fight against Matari interests.

We are an independent corp, surely you understand this concept being the lab grown Caldari pilot you are, we have no treaties with the slavery cultists or their allies, and our custom is to visit death and destruction upon them whenever we can.

While your hands are stained with Matari blood and your sword sworn to support the slavery cult against the Matari people save your hollow threats for use against your current ally when they announce it is time to reclaim your state for their false God.


Save the parlour philosophy for those who are remotely interested - you can't abolish slavery in a State that already doesn't tolerate it. The issue here is purely one of business practices - that of treatment of prisoners, a practice that is wound about with treaties, conventions and customs - despite your pretence of ignorance. My warning is not a grandiose threat to perform some action that is out of our reach. It should be simple enough for you to work out how many POW's Pyre Falcon creates in any given day. Right now most of those POW's make their way back to TLF stations unmolested - I'm telling you that this situation could, at any moment, become so, so different.

Since Freedom is your favourite word, let me pay you the compliment of extending you the freedom to choose what happens here and then let me continue your education with a Caldari concept called 'responsibility for your actions'. I'm not going to get drawn into a specific formula, suffice it to say that for every one of our people you illegally and immorally detain in your concentration camps I will ensure that some number of poor Matari POWs meets an equally dark or darker fate.

Do you really think I'm a Monster, with no conscience and my hands drenched in the blood of the innocent? Why would you unchain me, then?

By your own words you display the blood on your hands. I have not loosed the monster, I have merely identified him.

You are the leader of your Corp? They do your bidding? If so then have them cease all hostilities towards the Matari people and I will deliver any captured combatants of Caldari origin to you. Choose wisely for you are indeed responsible for the result of your actions.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#196 - 2015-05-25 18:08:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Matar Ronin wrote:
By your own words you display the blood on your hands. I have not loosed the monster, I have merely identified him.

You are the leader of your Corp? They do your bidding? If so then have them cease all hostilities towards the Matari people and I will deliver any captured combatants of Caldari origin to you. Choose wisely for you are indeed responsible for the result of your actions.


Reading comprehension is clearly not your thing, is it? How can I put this?

If you hold Caldari prisoners belonging to other Corporations then this is between them and you. You seem to have this habit of using everything as a springboard to your favourite agenda and I already indicated that I have absolutely zero interest in discussing philosophy or ideology with you.

The only discussion here is one of reciprocity, if you cease to observe the niceties then so shall we. I have an obligation to my contractors to ensure that nobody transgresses their rights as POWs lightly. I will meet that obligation and the suffering will increase.

Now, digressing for a moment, I believe I know you, Mister Ronin. You're a creature that feeds on suffering and doesn't care where it comes from - Amarr, Matari - even your own suffering is fuel to you. I think we've adequately displayed that, so now that I'm sure even you understand the simple mathematics of this situation, I'll leave you to your choices and your consequences.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Matar Ronin
#197 - 2015-05-25 18:18:43 UTC
Have you done the math? How long before you are targeted for reclaiming.

If you miscalculate that then the horrors of slavery will be visited upon the Caldari State by your current ally. Do not hope that they will change their ways and exempt your people.

In fact ask them to publicly declare the Caldari will never be subjected to conversion by force or endure the depravity of slavery.

Please post their official response here on IGS.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#198 - 2015-05-25 20:38:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Matar Ronin wrote:
In fact ask them to publicly declare the Caldari will never be subjected to conversion by force or endure the depravity of slavery.


They will never be subjected to war and slavery so long as they remain faithful allies of Amarr. Amarr honors our commitments. We do not break our word. Deception is a sin.

But they are subject to the Reclaiming. The Reclaiming is done with more tools than just lasers and chains. Amarr is honest about our intentions, and we won't deny that we will do our best to guide the Caldari to God. It is the Destiny of Faith.

Thousands of years ago, Khanid were in the same position that the Caldari are: an alliance with Amarr in war. They remained faithful and upheld their alliance, and became devoted servants of God without having to endure slavery. They proved that they could be trusted with freedom. Whether or not the same can happen with the Caldari will be up to them.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#199 - 2015-05-25 20:49:31 UTC
Ronin. Don't poke the Tuulinen. It won't end well.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Matar Ronin
#200 - 2015-05-25 20:56:57 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Ronin. Don't poke the Tuulinen. It won't end well.

Quite to the contrary I believe Pilot Tuulinen and I have reached a very acceptable outcome which serves both our purposes.

Reasonable people can disagree and still reach a solution.

That is why I try and reach as many intelligent minds as I can, our cause is just and it resonates with the majority of fair minded thinking people in the cluster. I include myself and Pilot Tuulinen in that group.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.