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Remove learning implants

First post
Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#41 - 2015-04-17 11:41:53 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:

It might reduce the hesitation of those with learning implants to PvP


I dispute this claim, by the way. Risk aversion should not be handled by making choices less meaningful.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jonahs Chensua
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#42 - 2015-04-30 09:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonahs Chensua
Leave the implants the way they are... leave the boosters the way they are... and let choice and the consequences of that choice ride on the shoulders of the player.

Some players will gain advantages and benefits, others will not. Some payers can make smart decisions, some players cannot.
Some players can see and use a tool to their best advantage, others cannot.

No, everyone does not need to be "equal", because they never will be whether in a game, or in reality.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#43 - 2015-04-30 12:48:17 UTC
Jonahs Chensua wrote:
Leave the implants the way they are... leave the boosters the way they are... and let choice and the consequences of that choice ride on the shoulders of the player.

Some players will gain advantages and benefits, others will not. Some payers can make smart decisions, some players cannot.
Some players can see and use a tool to their best advantage, others cannot.

No, everyone does not need to be "equal", because they never will be whether in a game, or in reality.


The "choice" however is a meaningless choice. These attributes have arbitrary, unintuitive assignments that don't have meaningful impacts on spaceships.

We could add a pop-up daily trivia quiz that gives you +1,000 SP. It could be really hard to reward players who know EVE lore. It would be a choice players would have to perform it or not, but it would be an arbitrary and pointless choice.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#44 - 2015-04-30 15:21:51 UTC
Attribute s definitely should be put in a bag and drowned

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jonahs Chensua
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#45 - 2015-05-01 09:27:04 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Jonahs Chensua wrote:
Leave the implants the way they are... leave the boosters the way they are... and let choice and the consequences of that choice ride on the shoulders of the player.

Some players will gain advantages and benefits, others will not. Some payers can make smart decisions, some players cannot.
Some players can see and use a tool to their best advantage, others cannot.

No, everyone does not need to be "equal", because they never will be whether in a game, or in reality.


The "choice" however is a meaningless choice. These attributes have arbitrary, unintuitive assignments that don't have meaningful impacts on spaceships.

We could add a pop-up daily trivia quiz that gives you +1,000 SP. It could be really hard to reward players who know EVE lore. It would be a choice players would have to perform it or not, but it would be an arbitrary and pointless choice.


I don't think you get it, but that is OK because it supports my comments regarding the equality issue. No choice is meaningless and does carries some form of consequence, whether big or small, whether near term or long.

You may argue it is trivial and too small, and your motive is to eliminate "meaningless choices". Then by your own word, it is a totally irrelevant issue, and implants and boosters can remain in effect because they have "no meaningful impact".

If you need to somehow create another in game mechanism to address your core problem then do so. But do not strip me of my so-called "meaningless" choices to fulfill that agenda.

You may simply decide to make the meaningless choice...NOT to use boosters or implants.
Karl Timonen
#46 - 2015-05-01 12:28:45 UTC
+1 to remove learning implants for all the reasons already cited above

Perhaps they could be replaced with legal boosters designed to be real cheap and easily produced even by beginners... in fact I'd overhaul the entire drug industry and make it more interesting & viable for new players. Just a thought.

...

Drammie Askold
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#47 - 2015-05-24 11:54:16 UTC
I am hesitant about seeking out pvp due to not wanting the expense of replacing learning implants.

As the blessed St. Reptilicus said "Some days you can't get a drink on the cuff anyplace."

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#48 - 2015-05-24 12:28:52 UTC
Drammie Askold wrote:
I am hesitant about seeking out pvp due to not wanting the expense of replacing learning implants.

This is not a good excuse. Please read The Lecture and come fight in lowsec. You will not lose your pod if you are careful.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Iain Cariaba
#49 - 2015-05-24 19:32:05 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Drammie Askold wrote:
I am hesitant about seeking out pvp due to not wanting the expense of replacing learning implants.

This is not a good excuse. Please read The Lecture and come fight in lowsec. You will not lose your pod if you are careful.

This is true. The only time I ever lost pods while fighting in lowsec was when I didn't want to fly 15+ jumps back home, and asked for pod express.

Oh, and when I made the mistake of flying into Rancer and landed on the gate occupied by smartbombing Rokhs, but that was my fault for not paying attention to the half a dozen flashy criminal icons in local. OopsBig smile
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#50 - 2015-05-24 20:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
I may have lost my snakes after frantically spamming the 'warp to' button on the beacon 10km away. But I guess lowsec can't be held responsible for that one :)

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2015-05-25 13:02:50 UTC
I used to be against this, but I have changed my mind. Actually, I'd even be happy with removing attributes altogether.


The basic 'meaningful choice' of skill training is - unsurprisingly! - choosing what to train.

Both learning implants and remaps add uninteresting complexity, imho. Almost everybody has +3s/+4s anyway (whether through cheap learning implants or genos/pirate sets), except (I assume) active null/wh PVPers, but why should these guys be penalized? Also, +1s, +2s and +5s are pretty much useless compared to the much more common 3/4s.


The basic 'meaningful choice' of pirate sets and hardwires is - again, unsurprisingly! - choosing whether to plug - and risk - them or not, and how much ISK to spend/risk.

The 'skill training penalty' of not plugging in learning implants is incredibly uninteresting, agian imho, because it has very little to do with the competitive nature of EVE.

Player A investing/risking more ISK than player B in exchange for a bonus NOW, IN THIS FIGHT is good. Player A investing/risking more than player B in exchange for a bonus or a new ship NEXT YEAR when they probably won't even meet is hilariously useless.

If it wasn't necessary to keep people hooked for years, I would maybe even just unlock all level Vs for everyone! It's not fleet command V that makes a good FC, nor max skilled carrier skills that makes you good at triage (or allows you to afford losing several archons while you practice), nor max trade/industry skills that makes you an ISK trillionare.


TL;DR just joking on that last sentence, skill training does make sense to craft your character(s) / provide choices / keep players hooked / reward loyal players... but no need to overdo the complexity! We should all be playing in space, not on EVEmon.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Peter Abbot
Super Grover 2.0
#52 - 2015-06-23 16:42:18 UTC
I know this thread is getting long, and old, but there is one point I haven't seen made regarding implants:

Jump clones.

If you're risk-averse you can always jump into an unmodified clone and run around doing PVP without risking your expensive implants. Then, after a day or two spent engaging in "risky" behavior you can dock up and jump back into your clone with all the learning implants. For example: I used to be busy enough that I would play EVE mostly on weekends and just check in on skill training during the week. Back then I would use a clone with tons of learning implants when I was (mostly) offline and then jump to a less "expensive" clone for weekend play.

I say leave the learning and other implants where they are. It adds another layer of strategy to the game and there are ways to mitigate the risk. Armor reppers mitigate the risk of getting asploded in an armor-tanked ship. Jump clones mitigate the risk of losing expensive learning (and other) implants. You can also maintain jump clones with different mixes of implants so that you can change them up without destroying and re-installing implants. Say, one with combat-related implants, one loaded with mining and/or industrial implants and one loaded with all the learning implants you can afford. Etc.

I'm not saying this is right for everyone but it's the way I play and, IMHO, it makes the game more interesting. Removing learning implants from the game would remove a welcome element of strategy and complexity. Isn't complexity one of the things EVE is (in)famous for?

If anything, I would say give more of a boost per level for the Infomorph Synchronizing skill but raise its training time multiplier. This would make jump clones more attractive at higher skill levels because you'd be able to "jump" more often. As it stands, the maximum boost you can get is 5 hours. Hooray! I only have to wait 19 hours instead of 24! If this skill were better balanced it would make training jump clones worth more and make them far more useful at maximum skill levels.

Fly safe.

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere"

kitsune Sabre
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-07-08 09:20:28 UTC
I agree they should be removed but at the same time we need a replacement

they're only reason why I will not go into low security space or wormhole space I simply cannot afford to replace them they're the most expensive thing I own
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2015-07-20 20:46:16 UTC
Do with what you will with attributes, plants and whatever you like. Really does not mean fck all any way.

However, if this is an attempt to mitigate risk aversion, you are flat wrong. There is not a damn thing you can do to get the numb nut behind the key board from cringing and rubbing his/her/it's hands.

If this is a veiled attempt to close the skill gap between newbies and older players, you are an idiot and have no clue what is EvE is about.
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