Intergalactic Summit

I believe in the truth Lyn, nothing more, nothing less. If the Amarrian God exists, I want to believe in him, if he doesn't exist, I don't want to believe in him. Strong atheism is a foolish position to take, because there might in fact be a god out there somewhere. That said, we have no evidence for any god, so I chose not to believe. I don't believe in God's absence, I simply haven't seen enough evidence to adjust my probabilities in favour of God's existence.



So do I have faith the sun will rise? No. I have strong evidence in favour of it, but it still might not rise tomorrow. I am willing to entertain the possibility that I am mistaken. If I had faith, then where would I be in the event the sun didn't rise? Faith seems to come pre-packaged with an assurance of its own correctness, despite anything that might appear to the contrary. Faith in flying won't save me from the bottom of the cliff face.

There's this idea that faith is a Good Thing, and believing without evidence is Virtuous. But how is your unshakeable faith in the Amarrian God truly different then my equally unfalsifiable and unshakeable faith in the presence of an alien in my hanger? If I can believe things without evidence, then where is the line drawn? Why can't I just believe anything I want then? The alien might seem silly to you, but to me your God looks equally silly and nonsensical. Just because the Amarrian faith has been around for a long time doesn't make it immune to criticism or magically give it more weight then other beliefs.

I of course, get around this through an application of Occam's Razor, simply not believing things for which I have no evidence, which in addition to getting rid of the alien in my hanger, also razors off all the unfalsifiable claims of the Amarr God.

If you can think of some manner of separating my belief in the hanger alien from your belief in God, that doesn't rely on Occam's Razor or an appeal to authority or tradition, I would like to hear it.

The issue, Riordan, is that you ignore the evidence that does exist.

Creation is evidence. The laws of the universe are evidence. The fact that we exist is evidence. Science and religion are not incompatible. In Amarr we understand that it is science that proves religion. We discover and observe natural laws, a blueprint for creation, programming code. A computer is built. A program is coded. Even a heuristic code was ultimately programmed to be heuristic. There is nothing in science, nothing, that explains how natural laws came into being, or how matter itself spawned. Science discovers the things that are, but it does not explain the how they are, the why they are.

You say that people who believe He is talking to them are insane, and yet God is always talking to us. You just want to view that speech in very concrete terms. When you think of talking you think of definite words, a deliberate communicated idea. Yet that isn't how God speaks to us, not usually. What he speaks to us with is signs. Inspiration. Courage. Wisdom. It is God that helps us know right from wrong. It is God that helps us understand the whys and hows. It is God that helps us endure evil. It is God that helps us grow as people.

You are unwilling to see this, because you want to attribute those things to humanity instead, because you want to believe in humanity as a strong, independent, infallible thing. But humanity is base and sinful. When left to our own devices we are a force of entropy, we work to destroy and corrupt. It is only in God that we can thrive and grow. It is only when we push our own selfish desires down and embrace higher goals and greater purposes, it is only when we submit to things greater than ourselves, that we physically and spiritually progress as a people.

You say that no amount of belief will allow you to fly. And yet, we do fly. You see that as proof against belief, we see that as proof for belief. It is faith that made you believe you could be more than you are, that you could do more, learn more, that you could, maybe, truly, fly. Faith is not magic. Faith is spirit. Faith is in knowing that there could be an alien in your hangar, and that you must always push forward until you find it. Just look to the Jovian observatories. Aliens were in our hangars, and we never knew it until something revealed them to us. If you had claimed that they were there 200 years ago, you would have been called insane.

And to this you will say, how is this any proof in God of Amarr specifically? The proof is in us, what we do. The proof is in the greatness of the Amarr Empire, of the progress we have made. If it were wrong, we would not be where we are today. And if it is wrong, we will not survive the coming eons. But as long as we do survive, as long as we do thrive, that is proof that we still have God's favor, that we are still doing His will.

We believe in God. That does not drive us to stagnancy. It drives us to innovation and discovery. It drives us to expand, develop, and progress, to uncover and perform His will. The proof of His existence is our success, and the proof of His non-existence would be our failure.

It's all mind control dear. Is it more humane to beat a slave into submission? Is it more humane to inject them with Vitoc and then force their subservience through fear of a slow, agonizing death? Or is it more humane to erase the negative portions of the individual's personality so you can accent the positive aspects? God does not want us to be monsters. And those LRCs are monstrous.







Well if I'm a heretic, then I guess most of the Khanid Kingdom are heretics too.

TCMCs do not remove the "hardships" as much as they remove the "distractions." If you are following Scripture, it is the responsibility of the Holder to provide what religious instruction is necessary to uplift the soul of the individual. This is a practice that is sadly lacking among Amarr Holders. You can also provide additional "hardships" with relative ease without causing additional damage to the subject, if you are so inclined.

But to be honest, the spiritual side of slavery isn't at the forefront of how slavery in Khanid is handled. This is why the Kingdom still has 9th Gen Matari slaves, and even slaves of other cultures. I can think of a certain Gallente pop star, for example...

Of course out here in Curse, slaves are just a commodity (I know the use of such terminology upsets you, but it is an entirely appropriate use of language). But they are a valued commodity. I'll put the quality and happiness of my "chipped" stock up against an Amarr slave who is strung out on Vitoc any day. That they are a commodity, means we have to keep them in the best of heath, keep them productive and increase their worth for resale. Look at how many Matari escape the Empire and return to the Republic with tales of woe. You don't see systemic abuse of slaves here in Curse, because that's just bad for business. No whip marks or bruises. No shock collar burns. No Vitoc. Just smiling, happy faces, genuinely interested in serving you.

I tell you what. I have an individual here who is trained as a personal assistant. Why don't I contract him to you for say, three months? That way you can get a greater understanding of what I'm talking about. If you do want buy him after the contract, we'll work out a deal. I prefer to sell to informed, discerning consumers. A trial period will help you become one.

The Amarrian God...

What if he does exist?

That paranoid, jealous entity who revels in suffering of the billions that had supposedly failed their creator?

He feeds on pain. Like an evil parent, he takes enjoyment in twisting his "creation" to a predetermined physical and mental shape.

Would any sane human who is not affected with a hostage syndrome not reject this "father", who is more like a demented, mass-murdering principal of a state orphanage?

I am not a hardcore atheist. I am ready to assume that, in some form or another, the deity of the Amarr people may actually exist. But if it is so, the evidence, including the Amarrian Scripture, shows that this entity is thoroughly evil and must be opposed at all costs.

And so, I reject the Evil God.

Spoken by the person who left people to die in jetcans around Pakhshi.

Well the IGS has become yet another channel that serves as a venue for these slavery cult fanatics to try and market their hostages like commodities.

As someone who destroys a minimum of 100 military warships of the slavery cultists daily I have amassed quite a number of hostages from their ranks that successfully reached escape pods, additionally we collect many thousands of them with the ground operations of our mercenary clone forces. We have transported them all to the safe confines of a penal planet we established for just such a purpose deep in wormhole space where we subject them to re-education opportunities so they might see the error of their ways.

We are not an official government agency or militia so we have no established protocol to return these hostages to their former homes, and their numbers keep swelling due to our successful campaigns against the enemies of the Matari people. We also conduct punitive raids against holder families in amarr low sec with the express purpose of capturing those who benefit from the fruits of slave labor and forcing them to toil honestly for what will likely be the rest of their natural lives with some of their heirs and relatives. This drags them away from their home worlds and allows them to taste what all day long hard work, vitoc, and slave collars feel like. They will remain thus gainfully employed at a minimum wage until hostilities between their empires and the Matari people cease.

I am sure those of you who find the similar practices of using vitoc and collars acceptable by the cultists will see no problem with our use of the same method for hostages, prisoners of combat operations, and targeted kidnap victims we have in custody for the rest of their natural lives. They are paid and allowed to move about freely within the penal colonies we have established. But escape is not possible due to the conditions of the planet outside of our penal facilities their is not sufficient atmosphere to sustain human life.

We are seeking a solution that will be less of a budget concern because maintaining adequate healthcare and sustenance for a penal colony that is growing by leaps and bounds is expensive. Of course the ransoms we extract from the holder families does offset this somewhat, but we usually demand that they emancipate the humans they hold as slaves for the continued lives of their heirs. Surprising how many choose to allow their offspring and spouses to languish as our hostages instead of giving up those they hold as slaves.

"Living people."

How long did it take you people to drum up enough courage to undock and rescue them?

They were slavers. I put them in a can full of garbage.

And I signed it with a Khu­maak, because people like you forget.


No abolition, no peace.

I'm sorry, Mr. Toov. I mistook your remarks for something ... well, more like Matar Ronin's or Ms. Tonari's.

... though maybe you can see how remarks about lesser evils still being evils can be taken as applying right down the line? And that line gets to some pretty ... attenuated places. If we follow it down Matar Ronin's remarks about "slavery cult fanatics" to apply to the Amarrian faith generally you could end up condemning ... well.

Most of the freed slaves themselves.

This stuff gets kind of ugly. I apologize for ... applying your remarks further than you meant them to be.

This is a sentiment I fully agree with. The problem is that abolition will not occur unless an alternative is in place within the Empire. Given the current climate within the Empire this will not happen soon.

To quote scripture:

"The Amarr people came into the world and the world came into being.
Our illustrious ancestors freed their souls from the evils of the old world and created a new one.
The great Amarr Empire was founded to cultivate the spirit of man.
To do so the enemies of the outside had to be defeated and the enemies of the inside controlled.
The Lord gave our Emperor the power to harness the Good and punish the Evil.
Ever since, the Emperor has lived the lives of his subjects and breathed the air of authority."
- The Scriptures, Book I 1:14

This is the root of the Reclaiming. It is a harsh view of the world, one that is often overlooked by those outside. The people of Amarr have, like others, struggled through many hardships. Our view on how to overcome those hardships is different than how the Minmatar, the Gallente, or the Caldari deal with hardship.

Until the people of Amarr see the error of slavery, and how we must truly adapt to other points of view, we will never find peace. I believe that that the people of Amarr could easily overcome our past. I believe that we can learn to lead the other people of New Eden to a Golden Age of peace and prosperity. We need look no further than the uprising that formed the Republic to see the folly of our ways.

We cannot punish the Good. That is not our mandate. We must see the Good in others, and harness that potential. I do not speak of Slavery. I speak of reclaiming the soul, not punishing the body.

To quote scripture further:

"And the Lord spake, and said, Lo, my people,
Witness, for I have made the worlds of Heaven;
And these worlds I give to you, My Chosen,
So Amarr shall rule the worlds of the Heavens.

None shall stand higher than you save the Sefrim,
Who serve Me as others shall serve you,
For all things under Me serve one higher;
So Amarr shall rule the worlds of the Heavens.

As Garrulor rules the skies; as Frisceas rules the sea;
As Emperor rules Holder; as Holder rules Serf;
Yet all under Heaven serve Me;
So shall Amarr rule the worlds of the Heavens."
- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 3.19 - 3.21

We must look beyond the worldly interpretation of the Reclaiming. We must lead by example. To date, we have only attempted to force our view on others. We are not held in high esteem, we are hated and feared. When we hold ourselves higher than others, we are not held up higher.

If the Amarr are to be the head of the faithful, we must respect the body of the faithful. We must harness the good, not punish it. We must punish the evil, not harness it.

My prayer to God for my people from this point forward is that my brothers and sisters in the faith heed these words.

So I guess I'm not really a sociopath then.

The can could just as easily been filled with plutonium.


No abolition, no peace.