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Faction heavy missile launcher
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Sven Galli
Drama Inc.
#21 - 2011-12-20 18:53:24 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
They really need to fix faction weapons. I love how 1 mil t2 guns do more dps than 100 mil faction guns even with t1 ammo.Roll



This is as it should be. You are paying for not wanting to spend the time to train the skills required. Skill training should always trump isk spending.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#22 - 2011-12-20 19:19:32 UTC
Sven Galli wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
They really need to fix faction weapons. I love how 1 mil t2 guns do more dps than 100 mil faction guns even with t1 ammo.Roll



This is as it should be. You are paying for not wanting to spend the time to train the skills required. Skill training should always trump isk spending.


Why can't I have both? I spent my time training and I'd like to have 100M ISK guns and T2 ammo. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Murtific
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#23 - 2011-12-21 00:18:23 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Murtific wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
best thing about faction launchers with missiles, is that if you dont need the t2 ammo options, they do more dps than T2 even with perfect specalisation.


false statement detected... go back and check your numbers pl0x Shocked

Heavy Missile Launcher II with Fury > Faction launcher with Faction ammo (DG ammo is not realistic, thus not credible in any statement of test.)


Hey, I underlined the part you missed. And he's right. The question is whether or not you need the T2 missile option. Its arguable with Cruise, but with HAM, HML, and Torps its mandatory.

-Liang


the argument becomes void in nature when applicable prices are cross referenced in conjunction with realistic pvp/pve endeavors
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#24 - 2011-12-21 00:22:35 UTC
Murtific wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Murtific wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
best thing about faction launchers with missiles, is that if you dont need the t2 ammo options, they do more dps than T2 even with perfect specalisation.


false statement detected... go back and check your numbers pl0x Shocked

Heavy Missile Launcher II with Fury > Faction launcher with Faction ammo (DG ammo is not realistic, thus not credible in any statement of test.)


Hey, I underlined the part you missed. And he's right. The question is whether or not you need the T2 missile option. Its arguable with Cruise, but with HAM, HML, and Torps its mandatory.

-Liang


the argument becomes void in nature when applicable prices are cross referenced in conjunction with realistic pvp/pve endeavors


Oh come on. Just stop. Admit you didn't read it fully and move on.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#25 - 2011-12-27 14:14:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
...
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#26 - 2011-12-27 14:23:33 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
best thing about faction launchers with missiles, is that if you dont need the t2 ammo options, they do more dps than T2 even with perfect specalisation, all the faction guns yeild less dps and are thus mostly bunk.
You are quite mistaken.T2 launchers and perfect skills with stock( or faction ammo)do more DPS than faction launchers.

I tossed a pair of launchers on an unbonussed ship to see how they compared:
A t2 launcher does 25 dps
A faction launcher does 26

That's with perfect skills.
Nadine Le'Slut
The-Four-HorseMen
#27 - 2011-12-27 15:03:48 UTC
are you sure you factored in the missile specialization skills?
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#28 - 2011-12-27 15:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Cambarus wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
best thing about faction launchers with missiles, is that if you dont need the t2 ammo options, they do more dps than T2 even with perfect specalisation, all the faction guns yeild less dps and are thus mostly bunk.
You are quite mistaken.T2 launchers and perfect skills with stock( or faction ammo)do more DPS than faction launchers.

I tossed a pair of launchers on an unbonussed ship to see how they compared:
A t2 launcher does 25 dps
A faction launcher does 26

That's with perfect skills.



So are you saying that my T2 heavy missile launcher at spec 4 tossing T2 ammo with 3.8Sec rof (can do better with more/better BCU's & riggs) does less DPS than Some Caldari Navy HEavy Missile Launcher and faction ammo (only HM at 5 since spec is not needed in this case) ?

Well, I'm sure you haven't looked that well for once Cambarus.

Edit because I can and I like it: Just let's put some situation like let's say, cruiser or BC size target. I'm sure I'll kill it faster than your Faction stuff with same fit other than launchers/ammo.

Now if people start making themselves new blood pressure issues just because of one pair of frigs and 2 Spider drones that represent 2 or 5% of the rat's spawn, there's nothing I can do to prove T2 heavy missiles and T2 ammo is better.
Wuxi Wuxtomie
Memories of a Time to Come
#29 - 2011-12-27 15:48:22 UTC
On an unbonussed ship, all lvl5:

HML t2: 32 dps
HML CN: 29 dps

HAM t2: 40 dps
HAM CN: 37 dps

Cruise t2: 44 dps
Cruise CN: 40 dps

Siege t2: 80 dps
Siege CN: 74 dps

All stats from EFT, t2 rage ammo for t2 launchers, CN ammo for faction launchers
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#30 - 2011-12-27 15:49:27 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Sven Galli wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
They really need to fix faction weapons. I love how 1 mil t2 guns do more dps than 100 mil faction guns even with t1 ammo.Roll



This is as it should be. You are paying for not wanting to spend the time to train the skills required. Skill training should always trump isk spending.


Why can't I have both? I spent my time training and I'd like to have 100M ISK guns and T2 ammo. :)

-Liang


If faction weapons could use T2 ammo, I think it is possible that prices would change.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#31 - 2011-12-27 17:48:42 UTC
Wuxi Wuxtomie wrote:
On an unbonussed ship, all lvl5:

HML t2: 32 dps
HML CN: 29 dps

HAM t2: 40 dps
HAM CN: 37 dps

Cruise t2: 44 dps
Cruise CN: 40 dps

Siege t2: 80 dps
Siege CN: 74 dps

All stats from EFT, t2 rage ammo for t2 launchers, CN ammo for faction launchers


Try it with CN ammo in both launchers. You know, apples and grapes...or somesuch.




Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
SpaceSquirrels
#32 - 2011-12-27 18:43:07 UTC
If they use t2 need to drop the fitting bonus IMO. Fitting of faction stuff is a huge bonus as you then get more leeway to play with fitting other stuffs.

Though really for the extraordinary cost...yeah should be able to.
Goose99
#33 - 2011-12-27 23:07:25 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:

Though really for the extraordinary cost...


Yeah, in term of dps.Lol
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#34 - 2011-12-27 23:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Cambarus wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
best thing about faction launchers with missiles, is that if you dont need the t2 ammo options, they do more dps than T2 even with perfect specalisation, all the faction guns yeild less dps and are thus mostly bunk.
You are quite mistaken.T2 launchers and perfect skills with stock( or faction ammo)do more DPS than faction launchers.

I tossed a pair of launchers on an unbonussed ship to see how they compared:
A t2 launcher does 25 dps
A faction launcher does 26

That's with perfect skills.



Wuxi Wuxtomie wrote:
On an unbonussed ship, all lvl5:

HML t2: 32 dps
HML CN: 29 dps

HAM t2: 40 dps
HAM CN: 37 dps

Cruise t2: 44 dps
Cruise CN: 40 dps

Siege t2: 80 dps
Siege CN: 74 dps

All stats from EFT, t2 rage ammo for t2 launchers, CN ammo for faction launchers


Hey tell me how that Fury ammo works when you're shooting frigs and cruisers. Even the Golem with its bonuses uses faction ammo here... and apples to apples, CN launchers ARE better than T2. And that's before you consider that spec 5 is really rare. :)

I guess I should just out and out say that Fury isn't gonna do too well vs frigs and cruisers (and even some angel BS)... when it comes down to switch Fury -> Faction -> Fury you lose 20 seconds of DPS...

-Liang

Ed: BTW, really wish those faction launchers could use T2 ammo....... :)

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#35 - 2011-12-28 04:48:01 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
best thing about faction launchers with missiles, is that if you dont need the t2 ammo options, they do more dps than T2 even with perfect specalisation, all the faction guns yeild less dps and are thus mostly bunk.
You are quite mistaken.T2 launchers and perfect skills with stock( or faction ammo)do more DPS than faction launchers.

I tossed a pair of launchers on an unbonussed ship to see how they compared:
A t2 launcher does 25 dps
A faction launcher does 26

That's with perfect skills.



So are you saying that my T2 heavy missile launcher at spec 4 tossing T2 ammo with 3.8Sec rof (can do better with more/better BCU's & riggs) does less DPS than Some Caldari Navy HEavy Missile Launcher and faction ammo (only HM at 5 since spec is not needed in this case) ?

Well, I'm sure you haven't looked that well for once Cambarus.

Edit because I can and I like it: Just let's put some situation like let's say, cruiser or BC size target. I'm sure I'll kill it faster than your Faction stuff with same fit other than launchers/ammo.

Now if people start making themselves new blood pressure issues just because of one pair of frigs and 2 Spider drones that represent 2 or 5% of the rat's spawn, there's nothing I can do to prove T2 heavy missiles and T2 ammo is better.

M8 perhaps training reading comprehension up a few more lvls would be a good idea. The guy I quoted explicitly said that t2 launchers do more with STOCK OR FACTION AMMO. I never even mentioned my stance on the issue at hand (I'm actually FOR faction weapons using t2 ammo) but what the guy I quoted said was 100%, PROVABLY wrong.

Also, your 3.8 seconds on a t2 launcher? It would be 3.7 on a CN launcher. While I can sometimes understand people being lazy in checking their arguments, when the post you write up is literally about someone not checking their facts, and your post clearly shows you, not checking your facts, one can't help but chuckle Lol
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#36 - 2011-12-28 14:32:09 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
best thing about faction launchers with missiles, is that if you dont need the t2 ammo options, they do more dps than T2 even with perfect specalisation, all the faction guns yeild less dps and are thus mostly bunk.
You are quite mistaken.T2 launchers and perfect skills with stock( or faction ammo)do more DPS than faction launchers.

I tossed a pair of launchers on an unbonussed ship to see how they compared:
A t2 launcher does 25 dps
A faction launcher does 26

That's with perfect skills.



So are you saying that my T2 heavy missile launcher at spec 4 tossing T2 ammo with 3.8Sec rof (can do better with more/better BCU's & riggs) does less DPS than Some Caldari Navy HEavy Missile Launcher and faction ammo (only HM at 5 since spec is not needed in this case) ?

Well, I'm sure you haven't looked that well for once Cambarus.

Edit because I can and I like it: Just let's put some situation like let's say, cruiser or BC size target. I'm sure I'll kill it faster than your Faction stuff with same fit other than launchers/ammo.

Now if people start making themselves new blood pressure issues just because of one pair of frigs and 2 Spider drones that represent 2 or 5% of the rat's spawn, there's nothing I can do to prove T2 heavy missiles and T2 ammo is better.

M8 perhaps training reading comprehension up a few more lvls would be a good idea. The guy I quoted explicitly said that t2 launchers do more with STOCK OR FACTION AMMO. I never even mentioned my stance on the issue at hand (I'm actually FOR faction weapons using t2 ammo) but what the guy I quoted said was 100%, PROVABLY wrong.

Also, your 3.8 seconds on a t2 launcher? It would be 3.7 on a CN launcher. While I can sometimes understand people being lazy in checking their arguments, when the post you write up is literally about someone not checking their facts, and your post clearly shows you, not checking your facts, one can't help but chuckle Lol



Well fact is that the uber Faction launcher with 3.7 rof instead of my poor T2 launcher has a lower volley witch means less dps per volley, with means before you get some advantage over my T2 launcher with T2 ammo on other thing than frigs you need to shoot a lot of volleys.

But it's ok it's a good war this argumentation, if every known poster in this forum starts saying Faction stuff is worst than T2 this will obviously crash the market for a lot of peeps.
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