These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

AFK cloaking !

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sor'Ral
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
#41 - 2011-09-10 23:21:06 UTC
Just remove cloakers from Local in Nullsec (or remove Local completely in Nullsec) ... then at least it takes an actual Botter to warp around AFK and scare people ... (sorry to meld topics).
Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#42 - 2011-09-12 06:57:53 UTC
Seems that people still miss the point that (AFK) cloakers may not be completely idle (that's why I put "AFK" in brackets) but still can log the comings and goings in a system, people, ship types, cartograph a whole system, make safespots if local drops empty or everyone present is docked...

All of that without any risk of being discovered, thus contradicting their often-used phrase "nothing is risk-free" on their own.

So I have to state that again: Make cloaking limited somehow. Be it with countermeasures (ship modules, POS installations, whatever), time or resource limits (cap, fuel, ...) but

cloaking as it is has to be changed!
Eperor
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#43 - 2011-09-12 08:01:10 UTC
Jacob Menard wrote:
Eperor wrote:
Jacob Menard wrote:
The only place I see potential for this is null sec. But it needs balance. The balance would be that neither the people holding sov could cloak, nor others in the system. Introduce the "System wide anti-cloaking field", like the cyno jammer.


Actualy that wuld be fareast ting sov holder need to have some advanted agens tacker. that he can use active defences not pasive like agest afk cloukers.


They do, the cyno jammer, they cant hot drop their caps and super caps in system. Of course, you cant bring in reinforcements that way either, but hopefully, if you have a station in system, you have the resources there to defend it as well.


They can hot drop if you not heared about cov ops cynos thna iteling you you can hot drop eny system.
Eperor
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#44 - 2011-09-12 08:03:25 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Eperor wrote:
foksieloy wrote:
The old philosophical question:
If a cloaker is afk in a system, does he still make little children scared?


m8 i not scared i manged to kil some off them with my pvp alt and when they trued to return to systme kiled them again. i jsut wish mechanics that i can kil them noting els. that he cant sit al the time in our sytems and getign intels and sdisturb industrialsit from working, That to easy get in sytems and wait u ntil you have tright moment and strike, that can be days months or weeks need put on them more presure that they to have some limitations.


Something to keep in mind... they're not your systems. Sure, you may have the dominant force in there. You may have sov, upgrades, etc. However, you don't own the system. At best you currently control it. If someone else comes in and decides to afk cloak, tough crap... they have as much right to be in that system as you do. Due to numbers, sov etc. you can do more... that's the benefits of having control. However, he's as entitled as anyone else to be there, even if it's cloaked, sometimes afk and sometimes gathering intel.

Just because you have control in the system don't think you're entitled to fluffy pillows and bunnies in space. You still need the balls to maintain your influence and control. If that one guy cloaked in there somewhere shakes your entire system's operations then perhaps you're not as ready to control it as you think.



Eie have balls nad miaintaning systems then question way thos freeking afk clouckers dont have balls to alow to hun them. :) they dont have bals ata all pusies :)
Eperor
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#45 - 2011-09-12 08:05:24 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
El'Niaga wrote:
The only thing we really need is a module, missile, or bomb that when cycle releases a tachyon burst that decloaks targets within its area of effect. In games I'm not so big on things that don't have counters, and the cloak currently fits that in EVE.


Cloak self-counters: all you can do while cloaked is observe. Dropping cloak to do anything at all makes you detectable.

Eperor wrote:
yes yes and ligts a cyno and there 60 recons and SB apears near you :) then wath your 1 bilj ship gos boom and your frend ****** in ass, wil never come again help you :) In this case your tip its junk noting els.


So your problem isn't one person afk cloaking in system, but the sudden appearance of a 60-man blops fleet. When local suddenly spikes up 60 people, it doesn't matter whether they came in via cyno or gate, you do the same thing: get to your POS and keep your head down.

There's nothing an afk cloaker can do to you that someone bouncing safe spots or simply logging off in space and coming back later can't do. It sounds to me like you just want to be able to rat and mine risk-free. That's what highsec is for.


Mader where they apear usualy by your ship from cov ops cyno so :) no risk for cloucker in that mili seconds wath thaces to open cyno and drop you you cant even lock the bastard.
Shingorash
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-09-13 12:52:55 UTC
Add a de-cloaking module with a fairly large range perhaps like concord have?
Chanina
ASGARD HEAVY INDUSTRIES
#47 - 2011-09-14 08:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Chanina
Hunting Cloakies

moved to Features & Ideas Discussion Forum.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=10561&find=unread

Reason: it is not limited to afk cloakers, it is intended as general counter cloak mechanic
Eperor
Machiavellian Empire
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#48 - 2011-09-14 09:11:29 UTC
Chanina wrote:
Hunting Cloakies

Kind of a proposal for a new mini profession.
Skill: Cloaking counter measures
Items: Huntingprobes, Tachyon Emitter

Description:
Huntingprobes can lokate hidden ships with a deviation of about 200 km (or off grid max)
Tachyon Emitter locates cloaked ships on grid. Mechanics described below.

Once you tracked down the cloaked ship (whether the player is afk or not doesn't matter) you can warp in on him (with your friends) and will land somewhere
near his last location. if he is not afk he will warp away as soon as you arrive at grid. Maybe you can catch him with bubbles.

Arrived at the location where he should be you activate your tachyon emitter modul. This will send out an circular puls (or sphere if you want to think in 3D)
(like ecm burst or SB) and will reveal you the location of the cloaked ship. Depending on the distance (and ship type) to you this info is more or less accurate
and point you in a new direction to fly to. Getting clother to the target will increase accuracy of your scan until you found it.
Multiplayer addition: if multiple ships on the grid have this tachyon emitter installed and use it simultaniously the information of all ships will be combined
and narrow down the location of the target. if all the ships stand on same spot (or cloth together) there will be not much profit but if the spread out in different
directions flying in a line with 30km between each other the common result will triangulate the signals and display it to everyone who scanned. (maybe this link
should be limited to fleet since you would help your enemy finding yours while hunting his cloakies ;-))

Further more it should make a difference if the ship is flying or standing. A standing ship can reduce its emission to near zero so it will be harder to detect.
Flying will increase emission and results in greater accuracy of the scans/tachyons.
It also depends on the ship you are hunting. A little stealth bomber is much harder to detect than a cloaked mothership right?

Maybe this brings space for a new ship type like a counter recon vessel.

some constructive criticism or additional thoughts are appreciated.


It is quit interessting how many people are that intelligent to know that a cloaky who attacks someone isn't afk. guys, you are greate thinkers ;-)


this mechenics i like and that its reale contre masure on thos clouckers.
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#49 - 2011-09-14 09:55:49 UTC
So... where do I close my own thread ? I think I've had enough of these afk-cloak crybabies in here.
Signal11th
#50 - 2011-09-14 11:38:16 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to afk cloak?

Usually this is because people want to be able to harvest isk in peace without bad people putting you on edge. You want it safe so you can mine, rat, or run anomalies. You don't want to have to worry about checking your scanner or split your profits by doing these actions in a fleet or mine with protection.

If you take even the simplest of precautions you can render afk cloakers completely ineffective, but people just don't want to do that.

It's a legit playstyle and already has an effective counter.



Damn something must be wrong with the universe as I'm actually agreeing with the Goon. What he said with bells on, there's nothing wrong with Cloaking, What you fail to realise there is no difference between afk cloaking or active cloaking, you don't if they are active or not active so what is the difference, the threat is the same.

It seems like people just want to rat/mine in peace in an area that is not designed to be peaceful at all.


God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Shingorash
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-09-14 11:45:06 UTC
There is a problem if someone afk cloaks in a complex or whatever so it cannot despawn till downtime, that is a pathetic thing to do.

There is currently no way of finding them as they could be anywhere.
Signal11th
#52 - 2011-09-14 14:28:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Shingorash wrote:
There is a problem if someone afk cloaks in a complex or whatever so it cannot despawn till downtime, that is a pathetic thing to do.

There is currently no way of finding them as they could be anywhere.



Find another plex? Another system.....


Yes I do agree it's pathetic but it's easy enough to find something else to do. You're basically moaning you cannot farm plexs with a afk cloaker?

Find a better system with more plex's in it I think the lastest patch you get 3/4/ sanctums and 6-7 havens in a -0.8 system now? You're getting one afk cloaker in your system he can only screw up one site.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2011-09-14 15:25:31 UTC
Rina Asanari wrote:
Seems that people still miss the point that (AFK) cloakers may not be completely idle (that's why I put "AFK" in brackets) but still can log the comings and goings in a system, people, ship types, cartograph a whole system, make safespots if local drops empty or everyone present is docked...

All of that without any risk of being discovered, thus contradicting their often-used phrase "nothing is risk-free" on their own.


Which is a 'GENERAL' rule (note the quotes) that is superceded countless times by CCP and CSM stating that cloaking is working AS DESIGNED.

Cloakers CAN and are ALLOWED to do those things risk free.
The only issue here is that it AFKers keep system citizens on edge without any effort, so the Local Chat timeout when not active solves everything, while maintaining the intended usage of cloak as a espionage and psyop weapon (when the user is active)
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#54 - 2011-09-14 17:02:56 UTC
Kaelie Onren wrote:
Rina Asanari wrote:
Seems that people still miss the point that (AFK) cloakers may not be completely idle (that's why I put "AFK" in brackets) but still can log the comings and goings in a system, people, ship types, cartograph a whole system, make safespots if local drops empty or everyone present is docked...

All of that without any risk of being discovered, thus contradicting their often-used phrase "nothing is risk-free" on their own.


Which is a 'GENERAL' rule (note the quotes) that is superceded countless times by CCP and CSM stating that cloaking is working AS DESIGNED.

Cloakers CAN and are ALLOWED to do those things risk free.
The only issue here is that it AFKers keep system citizens on edge without any effort, so the Local Chat timeout when not active solves everything, while maintaining the intended usage of cloak as a espionage and psyop weapon (when the user is active)


I think you're kind of on the right track, however why should a cloaked vessel show up on local at all? It seems the device that's cutting off your ship from the entire EM spectrum (for detection purposes) should do so immediately, as well as cut off you're access to those communications systems.

When you cloak, you leave local. You cannot bee seen in local, nor can you see local (i.e. no free intel while cloaked, requiring the cloaked vessel to actively gather intel). Also, to prevent the surprise cyno, have a delay before you can activate a cyno (say 30 secs) when you uncloak.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Sor'Ral
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
#55 - 2011-09-14 18:52:21 UTC
Chanina wrote:
Hunting Cloakies

Kind of a proposal for a new mini profession.
Skill: Cloaking counter measures
Items: Huntingprobes, Tachyon Emitter

Description:
Huntingprobes can lokate hidden ships with a deviation of about 200 km (or off grid max)
Tachyon Emitter locates cloaked ships on grid. Mechanics described below.

It is quit interessting how many people are that intelligent to know that a cloaky who attacks someone isn't afk. guys, you are greate thinkers ;-)



Sounds fun!
raker
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2011-09-14 19:33:57 UTC


Leave cloaking as it is

Whats the problem with ppl being cloaked and afk

I live in WH space, if ppl are stupid enough to be cloaked afk, then they run the risk of missing chars jumping into thier system and cloaking up, which is good if you are on the hunt , and if they are stupid enough to be cloaked up in a WH that isn't thiers, then they run the risk of getting trapped in a system due to the WH closing naturally or being closed by the residents

Seems to me its the nullbears crying over this issue when they have local anyway
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#57 - 2011-09-14 19:43:38 UTC
Rina Asanari wrote:
Seems that people still miss the point that (AFK) cloakers may not be completely idle (that's why I put "AFK" in brackets) but still can log the comings and goings in a system, people, ship types, cartograph a whole system, make safespots if local drops empty or everyone present is docked...

All of that without any risk of being discovered...


Confirming that it is completely impossible to decloak cloaked ships. Roll

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2011-09-15 08:25:43 UTC
Shingorash wrote:
There is a problem if someone afk cloaks in a complex or whatever so it cannot despawn till downtime, that is a pathetic thing to do.

There is currently no way of finding them as they could be anywhere.


This is different I think and if true (I haven't experimented with the mechanics) should probably be revisited. If you can actively counter me and I have no game mechanic with which to fight back then this is probably deserves some game mechanics tweaking. If it's just a matter of some guy in local hiding so it keeps you on edge, learn to deal with it.
Anna Orkiste
DELTA FORCE RANGERS
#59 - 2011-09-15 09:42:03 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Shingorash wrote:
There is a problem if someone afk cloaks in a complex or whatever so it cannot despawn till downtime, that is a pathetic thing to do.

There is currently no way of finding them as they could be anywhere.


This is different I think and if true (I haven't experimented with the mechanics) should probably be revisited. If you can actively counter me and I have no game mechanic with which to fight back then this is probably deserves some game mechanics tweaking. If it's just a matter of some guy in local hiding so it keeps you on edge, learn to deal with it.



its true i tested my self out if you run lets say sanctum and there enerbly you cloucked shiop sanctum not respawning hee stays there untill that cloucked ship warps away.

Ader ting here is meny posts that smal entatys wiling to live in 0.0 etc. how you see smal entaty pl live ern isk in 0.0 if they have like 2-3 systems with no sanctums at all and best hevens, ant there is clouckers afkers hoo sit in al 3 systems they have no where to go. Some one sad leave system he cant there in second allaince system is again the same, so all allaince gos down or wath? I tink that to easy to break wiling to fight or actyualy no isk to fight with enemy. And you stil wish mechanics for samm alliance to take foot in 0.0, if they will have no posibility to ern eny isk at all. If some one say that no hapens so not true i saa my self that hapening.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#60 - 2011-09-15 09:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
If you really want to mess with hotdroppers... Fit a cyno on you ratting ship :-D

Whether or not you really have a capfleet waiting to back you up(and I would suggest having a way to organize bored cap pilots into doing this when they want) them seeing you stop and open a cyno when they tackle you is bound to make them think twice.

Of course, it might just end with you and a SB sitting at 30km from each other, trapped by your cynos, staring at each other waiting for the other guys hotdrop to arrive.....

Edit: I want to request a feature for the forums that rejects any post that has fewer that 50% recognizable words Ugh

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.