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Overheating Ice/Gas/Ore Havesters.

Author
Deep Nine
Vigilante Carebears
#1 - 2015-05-23 15:07:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Deep Nine
Overheating strip/ice/gas harvesters should and could be done via a a ship mode for Exhumers only, perhaps only macks and hulks
A suggested penalty would be a reduction in shield capacity and deactivating shield hardeners.
Benefits would be faster harvesting and/or larger yields at the expense to the defenses.
The exhumers strip mode should include a reduction to heat damage, miners sit for long periods, requiring a break on heat damage.

This gives an added option of risk/reward.
Iain Cariaba
#2 - 2015-05-23 15:34:14 UTC
Roll

Forums are constantly bombarded by people who fit their barges for yield over tank, then come here to cry about how a single catalyst did violence on their boats. This particular bad idea of yours will only do two things:

1: Cause more people to prioritize yield over tank, thus losing their ship and shiptoasting on forums about the "problem with ganking.
2: Cause more minerals to be available on market, thus driving the prices down further. This would have the effect of your income from mining remaining the same, and possibly dropping if enough people used the feature.

Basic rule of economics. If you increase supply, in this case by increasing yield, without a corresponding increase in demand, prices drop. When prices drop, the supplier makes less money.

So, not supported by me. Should not be supported by any miner with a grasp on basic economics. If you want a long term reduction in your income through mining, then by all means keep supporting this bad idea.
Deep Nine
Vigilante Carebears
#3 - 2015-05-23 15:39:09 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Roll

Forums are constantly bombarded by people who fit their barges for yield over tank, then come here to cry about how a single catalyst did violence on their boats. This particular bad idea of yours will only do two things:

1: Cause more people to prioritize yield over tank, thus losing their ship and shiptoasting on forums about the "problem with ganking.
2: Cause more minerals to be available on market, thus driving the prices down further. This would have the effect of your income from mining remaining the same, and possibly dropping if enough people used the feature.

Basic rule of economics. If you increase supply, in this case by increasing yield, without a corresponding increase in demand, prices drop. When prices drop, the supplier makes less money.

So, not supported by me. Should not be supported by any miner with a grasp on basic economics. If you want a long term reduction in your income through mining, then by all means keep supporting this bad idea.


My idea gives miners the option of a risk reward element that they can determine themselves.
EvE has always been about risk, increased risk to ganking is a gamble they take for more money.
Hellen Killer
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-05-23 16:00:26 UTC
So another ship mode?

We have Siege, Triage, Defensive, Sharpshooter, ETC. Why not a Strip mode?

Tis the seaons for lots of modes.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#5 - 2015-05-23 16:11:22 UTC
I support this stealth nerf to mining

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

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'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-05-23 17:22:40 UTC
Hellen Killer wrote:
So another ship mode?

We have Siege, Triage, Defensive, Sharpshooter, ETC. Why not a Strip mode?

Tis the seaons for lots of modes.


Do we really need strip mode?

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome

Jasmine Cheryu
Sell Now - Cry Later
#7 - 2015-05-23 17:55:30 UTC
Specia1 K wrote:
Hellen Killer wrote:
So another ship mode?

We have Siege, Triage, Defensive, Sharpshooter, ETC. Why not a Strip mode?

Tis the seaons for lots of modes.


Do we really need strip mode?



LOL, i almost spat my dinner all over my keyboard.. thanks Big smile

Ontop to OP's proposal
I would like the following if overheating were possible for the material aquisition modules:

If we could overheat those mods:
1: they take heat damage like all other overheated mods... (and i believe you can repair those mods on the fly with repair paste?? correct me if i'm wrong) -- this should only REDUCE the spin time, and not the yield (there are reasons..)
this means that people need to spend X amount of money on repair paste (or build themselves, but that doesnt mean its free..)... and it also gives players who actively mine an advantage over those who afk mine

2: whilst overheating those mods, cap for a single spin increases by X% and effectiveness of resistance modules is reduced by X%


I believe that would be a fair tradeoff.

Alternatively, leave mining as it is.... Cool
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#8 - 2015-05-23 17:58:03 UTC
Or a strip mode that lock us in place and doesn't give any bonus to defense, only to cycle time Cool

But seriously a overheating would need to be so good that it would compensate the price of the repairs of module or nanite paste at least.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#9 - 2015-05-23 18:18:17 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:

Basic rule of economics. If you increase supply, in this case by increasing yield, without a corresponding increase in demand, prices drop. When prices drop, the supplier makes less money.

True on a per unit basis. however, those who can take advantage of this effectively (thermo 5 skiff pilots) would vastly increase their market share and total units moved, leading to other issues.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#10 - 2015-05-23 18:48:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Samillian
The penalty for heating a module no matter what the temporary bonus gained is and should remain the eventual burn out of that module. It is the penalty for every other module in the game and I see no reason why it should not remain so nor do I see a compelling reason to make an exception in this case.

That aside I don't mind miners actually being able to overheat their strip miners or ice harvesters as long as burnout applies. Although I do have the feeling that any gains they make using heat would probably go straight into the pockets of nanite repair paste manufacturers.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Deep Nine
Vigilante Carebears
#11 - 2015-05-23 18:51:46 UTC
It should have a reduction to heat damage as well.

Miners sit for longer periods of time and would probably require a break on heat damage as well.
Iain Cariaba
#12 - 2015-05-23 19:48:53 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:

Basic rule of economics. If you increase supply, in this case by increasing yield, without a corresponding increase in demand, prices drop. When prices drop, the supplier makes less money.

True on a per unit basis. however, those who can take advantage of this effectively (thermo 5 skiff pilots) would vastly increase their market share and total units moved, leading to other issues.

This would be true in the short term. However, in the long term, lower mineral prices will effect even the thermo 5 skiff pilot as more and more minerals are dumped on the market without an increased demand to give them a place to go.
Deep Nine
Vigilante Carebears
#13 - 2015-05-23 20:22:14 UTC
This new feature would be advantages to miners and provide additional income at higher risk to their ships.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-05-23 21:15:16 UTC
I like the idea of overheating mining lasers but it shouldn't affect your ship's defenses. You should be able to overheat them much longer than other modules can overheat, but still much shorter than a normal mining timeframe. The purpose of it could be to get a useful ore haul out before you're caught. Useless in highsec, as it should be. It could be a great way to use a venture or skiff.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Deep Nine
Vigilante Carebears
#15 - 2015-05-24 01:54:39 UTC
A possible idea is to vary the affects depending on the harvester being used.

Longer range for ice harvesters.

Shorter cycle time for strip miners and modulated.

Higher yield for gas harvesting.

Higher yield for regular Miner modules.
Panty Stocking
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-05-24 02:53:15 UTC
required for my support:

overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only

requires t2 strip miners

does 10x the amount of crystal damage and once the crystal is destroyed/removed, heat damage applies to strip miner module.

Reasoning: this would let miners keep mining when their non-overheated range is cleared out, while approaching the next group of asteroids. It is not meant to be used continuously, and affects yield not at all, nor resists. it also means a longer duration for overheating modules with t1 crystals. the choice of t1 vs t2 crystals is then one of yield vs overheat duration.

not as useful as op wants, but certainly less of a game changer than stupidly messing with yield/tank

Iain Cariaba
#17 - 2015-05-24 04:18:11 UTC
Panty Stocking wrote:
required for my support:

overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only

requires t2 strip miners

does 10x the amount of crystal damage and once the crystal is destroyed/removed, heat damage applies to strip miner module.

Reasoning: this would let miners keep mining when their non-overheated range is cleared out, while approaching the next group of asteroids. It is not meant to be used continuously, and affects yield not at all, nor resists. it also means a longer duration for overheating modules with t1 crystals. the choice of t1 vs t2 crystals is then one of yield vs overheat duration.

not as useful as op wants, but certainly less of a game changer than stupidly messing with yield/tank


An infinitesimal amount of planning and awareness of where the rocks you're mining are located in the belt makes extending the range through overheat totally unnecessary. If you take the time to scout your belts before you start mining, pay attention to your survey scanner, and reposition yourself as you're mining, you'll almost never be out of range of whatever rocks you're into.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-05-24 05:45:26 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Panty Stocking wrote:
required for my support:

overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only

If you take the time to scout your belts before you start mining, pay attention to your survey scanner, and reposition yourself as you're mining, you'll almost never be out of range of whatever rocks you're into.

You'll only ever have range issues when you have 10+ hulks mining the same belt faster than they can move along it.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Deep Nine
Vigilante Carebears
#19 - 2015-05-24 19:05:52 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Panty Stocking wrote:
required for my support:

overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only

If you take the time to scout your belts before you start mining, pay attention to your survey scanner, and reposition yourself as you're mining, you'll almost never be out of range of whatever rocks you're into.

You'll only ever have range issues when you have 10+ hulks mining the same belt faster than they can move along it.


What do you suggest?
Iain Cariaba
#20 - 2015-05-24 19:21:18 UTC
Deep Nine wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Panty Stocking wrote:
required for my support:

overheating affects RANGE of strip miners only

If you take the time to scout your belts before you start mining, pay attention to your survey scanner, and reposition yourself as you're mining, you'll almost never be out of range of whatever rocks you're into.

You'll only ever have range issues when you have 10+ hulks mining the same belt faster than they can move along it.


What do you suggest?

Suggest you learn more about how the game really works before you promote suggestions that, while you think are helpful, actually make things worse in the long run.
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