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New Citadel/POS tear down ease? like if you get wardecced
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DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#21 - 2015-05-17 16:22:17 UTC
The info we do have, form the thread and the blog:

there will be a window of opportunity they can be attacked, you will set your prime time and the window will be determined by occupancy.


If your citadel gets RF'd and you go to remove it, the RF timer will restart. You will also have an unanchoring delay, which is stupid but thats the concept right now.

Nothing is set in stone yet, so there is no official information on any of this at this time. That is why there is a feedback thread, if you have an issue, go post there, the devs will see it and take the thoughts into consideration in the final design.

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#22 - 2015-05-17 20:31:49 UTC
Occupancy is a Null Sov mechanic though. They have explained it all nicely for Null Sov, and it works for Null Sov, the issue is how it works in every other area of space where alliances are not thousands of people, but often a small handful only.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-05-22 04:10:49 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Occupancy is a Null Sov mechanic though. They have explained it all nicely for Null Sov, and it works for Null Sov, the issue is how it works in every other area of space where alliances are not thousands of people, but often a small handful only.


And where the most players are according to ccp and other data.
Most players in hisec....least info about Citadels in hisec?? Legit
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-05-23 10:26:14 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Kaelynne Rose wrote:
I cant find info on how long/how easy they are to take down if your coro gets griefdecced.
Is it like current mechanics where you can save your POS from griefdeccers before war goes live?



thats because there is no info

Then this sounds like the perfect time to give feedback and let CCP know how to implement this system
Solecist Punk
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-05-23 11:08:43 UTC
Those who can not defend themselves ...
... aren't being griefdecced, silly.

It's called natural selection !


You die, because you deserve it ! :D
A million times over !
And then some ! :D


Hell, anyone who thinks griefing is an issue in this game ...
... has NO idea what griefing really is ! :D
permion
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-05-23 11:44:12 UTC
OP is perfectly justified asking for info. Should also be info that even people opposing the OP care about...

Essentially the sooner the info gets out, the sooner both of your sides can actually fight about what should be happening. Right now this is just an amusing troll/flame war to watch.

I've also never understood why people would ever even need to worry about high sec war deccers in the first place. Just hang out on low/null/WH or PvE spaces that you need keys/similar to get to if you can't leave High sec for whatever reason. Even stupid simple tactics of using WH's to get to the other side of the map will keep the average war dec player away from you(and that only costs you 20 to 30 mins a day, while costing the war dec corp several to many man hours to actually get to you).
Cyborg Girl86
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-05-23 11:53:48 UTC
I really hope the mechanics for tearing down the new structures doesn't deviate too much from what they are now. Here's a RL example of how tiny corps use them to defend against an unstoppable threat taken from a thread I made:

Quote:
A RL example of how the current POS mechanics saved my hide: I got wardecced by a griefer/wardeccer corp a month ago and immediately after finding out, tore down and stored my POS during the 24hr grace period. To my amusement, every other corp in my system got systematically wardecced by the same corp, and sure enough a fleet of 20+ Apocs showed up and began wiping out all of the other corps' POS's one-by-one until nearly two thirds of all the POS's in my home system were wiped out. I seemed to be the only smart person other than the wardeccer corp in that system that day Lol Let's just say I saved myself quite a bit of ISK


Most tiny indy/exploration/PVE corps can't defend themselves against entire fleets of 20-30+ POS bashing BS's/BC's, and the ability to tear down and store their POS is really their only saving grace.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-05-23 15:36:49 UTC
permion wrote:
OP is perfectly justified asking for info. Should also be info that even people opposing the OP care about...

Essentially the sooner the info gets out, the sooner both of your sides can actually fight about what should be happening. Right now this is just an amusing troll/flame war to watch.

I've also never understood why people would ever even need to worry about high sec war deccers in the first place. Just hang out on low/null/WH or PvE spaces that you need keys/similar to get to if you can't leave High sec for whatever reason. Even stupid simple tactics of using WH's to get to the other side of the map will keep the average war dec player away from you(and that only costs you 20 to 30 mins a day, while costing the war dec corp several to many man hours to actually get to you).

This is very smart
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#29 - 2015-05-23 16:33:43 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
permion wrote:
OP is perfectly justified asking for info. Should also be info that even people opposing the OP care about...

Essentially the sooner the info gets out, the sooner both of your sides can actually fight about what should be happening. Right now this is just an amusing troll/flame war to watch.

I've also never understood why people would ever even need to worry about high sec war deccers in the first place. Just hang out on low/null/WH or PvE spaces that you need keys/similar to get to if you can't leave High sec for whatever reason. Even stupid simple tactics of using WH's to get to the other side of the map will keep the average war dec player away from you(and that only costs you 20 to 30 mins a day, while costing the war dec corp several to many man hours to actually get to you).

This is very smart

Might be a bit smarter to go post this in one of the structure discussion threads in f&I where the devs have actually responded to legitimately good questions rather than here in gd with a 50% chance of getting trolled

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-05-23 16:46:24 UTC
All of the OPs fears and misinformation has been talked about in the F&I section.


The new citadels will (if they are "unlimited" storage) launch your stuff into space, at a random point in system, that only you have a BM to, that is un-scanable and un-open-able to any but you, this includes ships, when they blow up. AFAIK that smaller Citadels will drop stuff like the current CHA does with the same drop rate.


The Citadels defenses are made to be able to defend against a group that is trying to do nothing but use a single frig with a entosis link to destroy the citadel, tho a decently sized group with Logi will be able to easily overpower the Citadel.


The Citadels will have a much better chance to be a force multiplier for the defenders than the current POS system because of the nature of the Citadel being:

1: Able to be placed location other than moons
2: Have a better interface (supposedly anyways) for the defender to coordinate the defenses.
3: Still have a POS shield like mechanism in place for friendly ships (unknown if it will be in the final build or what this "invincibility link" will do)
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-05-23 17:33:03 UTC
Kashadin wrote:
All of the OPs fears and misinformation has been talked about in the F&I section.


The new citadels will (if they are "unlimited" storage) launch your stuff into space, at a random point in system, that only you have a BM to, that is un-scanable and un-open-able to any but you, this includes ships, when they blow up. AFAIK that smaller Citadels will drop stuff like the current CHA does with the same drop rate.


The Citadels defenses are made to be able to defend against a group that is trying to do nothing but use a single frig with a entosis link to destroy the citadel, tho a decently sized group with Logi will be able to easily overpower the Citadel.


The Citadels will have a much better chance to be a force multiplier for the defenders than the current POS system because of the nature of the Citadel being:

1: Able to be placed location other than moons
2: Have a better interface (supposedly anyways) for the defender to coordinate the defenses.
3: Still have a POS shield like mechanism in place for friendly ships (unknown if it will be in the final build or what this "invincibility link" will do)


Whoa dude. Unlimited storage? So like a Large POS/Citadel makes it so you can never lose your stuff/ships if your POS/Citadel gets blown up?

Thats great news, we can all form corps and make citadels and have ZERO fear of ever losing anything inside of it again!
Yay
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-05-23 17:51:18 UTC
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#33 - 2015-05-23 23:04:38 UTC
Personally, I think the small and medium ones should be recoverable. The large? If you want a large, with all its capability, then maybe the tear down should take longer than a day.

This is mainly to have continuity with the current system. Its also to encourage the use of these structures. Many corps simply will not use them if they cannot turtle with them. Then they will opt to be one of the proposed "corp lite" entities, and you will not be able to dec them at all.

Also, the war deccers are denying you the use of the structure for the duration of the war, so they are having an effect, and gaining a victory.

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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#34 - 2015-05-24 13:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lil' Brudder Too
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
[Might be a bit smarter to go post this in one of the structure discussion threads in f&I where the devs have actually responded to legitimately good questions rather than here in gd with a 50% chance of getting trolled

Actually, statistically, there is a higher chance at getting a dev to respond in GD. It increases more if you phrase the question in the style of "woke up next to the avatar above you".

And besides, isn't blatant trolling against forum rules anyways? So in theory, the trolls should just get their posts deleted and warned...but alas, this is an imperfect world where GD gets more Dev attention than even their official Dev created feedback threads after the first two days.

Kashadin wrote:
The Citadels will have a much better chance to be a force multiplier for the defenders than the current POS system because of the nature of the Citadel being:

1: Able to be placed location other than moons

I'm confused, how is being able to warp to them essentially with only d-scan act as a force multiplier and make them easier to defend?

Also, current system allows for the POS to engage well over 40 targets with its weapons...the new system...maybe a dozen. Gone are the days of using the POS to jam the entirety of the attacking logi wing, AND still keeping the DPS primaries on grid whilst you kill them.

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