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Crime & Punishment

 
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Margin Scamming and Anonymity

First post
Author
Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-05-22 21:10:22 UTC
As a person who makes his living in the revenge business, I'm curious why margin scamming is allowed to remain an anonymous activity? Doesn't EVE have consequences, even if they must be meted out by the players themselves?

I understand that the margin scams are conducted with meaningless alts, but there should be some record of the failed transaction with a name attached, so players can do what they will with the information.

In all honesty, if the SCC were a legitimate enforcement agency, margin calls would be made against these people and assets would be seized to satisfy the exchange. As that is not likely, the ability to identify the offending party and place a bounty or attempt to confiscate assets--that is, destroy assets--to settle the balance ourselves would be a welcome change.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Yourmoney Mywallet
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-05-22 21:13:06 UTC
Sooooo... how much?
flakeys
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-05-22 21:18:32 UTC
Derek Quaid wrote:
As a person who makes his living in the revenge business, I'm curious why margin scamming is allowed to remain an anonymous activity? Doesn't EVE have consequences, even if they must be meted out by the players themselves?

I understand that the margin scams are conducted with meaningless alts, but there should be some record of the failed transaction with a name attached, so players can do what they will with the information.

In all honesty, if the SCC were a legitimate enforcement agency, margin calls would be made against these people and assets would be seized to satisfy the exchange. As that is not likely, the ability to identify the offending party and place a bounty or attempt to confiscate assets--that is, destroy assets--to settle the balance ourselves would be a welcome change.



But it does , people fall victim to their greed wiithout looking at the price history tab and as such they must face the consequences of loosing their isk.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-05-22 21:37:29 UTC
Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:
Sooooo... how much?

A previous client inquired about placing a bounty on a margin scammer and asked if I knew of any way of identifying the guilty party. I asked around and found the consensus to be that this is indeed an anonymous crime.

I would like to place such bounties on such scoundrels, so I am somewhat saddened by CCP allowing a completely anonymous scam in the sandbox.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-05-22 22:00:20 UTC
Derek Quaid wrote:

Myself or someone I know got scammed


The general rule of thumb is that if it looks too good to be true, it IS too good to be true. Trust me, nobody is ever going to make a "drunken market mistake", and if they do, they sure wont be linking it in local.

Derek Quaid wrote:

I would like to place such bounties on such scoundrels.


No, you wouldnt. Its pointless, and most scammers (or really anyone) wear bounties like a badge of honor. Bounties are totally useless in EVE.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-05-22 22:10:52 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
No, you wouldnt. Its pointless, and most scammers (or really anyone) wear bounties like a badge of honor. Bounties are totally useless in EVE.

The purpose of placing bounties is to make ISK from them. When my clients place an anonymous bounty for free, they understand that any ISK refunded due to their target leaving the game is mine to keep. Because I'm here for the long haul, I don't mind the long turnaround on such payouts.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-05-22 22:17:19 UTC
Welcome to the game of alts.
Paranoid Loyd
#8 - 2015-05-22 22:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Derek Quaid wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
No, you wouldnt. Its pointless, and most scammers (or really anyone) wear bounties like a badge of honor. Bounties are totally useless in EVE.

The purpose of placing bounties is to make ISK from them. When my clients place an anonymous bounty for free, they understand that any ISK refunded due to their target leaving the game is mine to keep. Because I'm here for the long haul, I don't mind the long turnaround on such payouts.

Margin scam orders would not be placed by mains, they would be placed by alts who most likely never undock and if they do it is in a shuttle, your bounty is wasted either way.

Even if they were to get killed the isk comes from you and is transferred to the one who kills them, you are spending more isk, not making any and they are losing none.

FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-05-22 23:07:31 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Even if they were to get killed the isk comes from you and is transferred to the one who kills them, you are spending more isk, not making any and they are losing none.

FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.

The ISK does not come from me, you blithering fool. People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation. When their targets leave the game, the bounty pools are refunded pro rata, which means I get the money back. Alts are the most likely toons to be biomassed or otherwise disposed, meaning they're the most likely to turn a profit for me.

Contrary to your belief, bounty payouts are not transferred on a kill-by-kill basis from one player to another. Bounties placed go into a pool, and any bounties earned are paid from that pool. In the words of a moron who stumbled upon a nugget of wisdom and had no idea when to use it (now would be the time)...

FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2015-05-22 23:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Derek Quaid wrote:
People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation........

FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.
Ironic.

You're here complaining about anonymity, yet anonymously place bounties for others?

But the other funny point is the whine about margin scamming. It relies upon some mug thinking they are about to get one over on another pilot and take them for some ISK. They then fail to check prices and dive straight in, only to be out PvP'd through the market.

FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Paranoid Loyd
#11 - 2015-05-22 23:48:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Derek Quaid wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Even if they were to get killed the isk comes from you and is transferred to the one who kills them, you are spending more isk, not making any and they are losing none.

FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.

The ISK does not come from me, you blithering fool. People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation. When their targets leave the game, the bounty pools are refunded pro rata, which means I get the money back. Alts are the most likely toons to be biomassed or otherwise disposed, meaning they're the most likely to turn a profit for me.

Contrary to your belief, bounty payouts are not transferred on a kill-by-kill basis from one player to another. Bounties placed go into a pool, and any bounties earned are paid from that pool. In the words of a moron who stumbled upon a nugget of wisdom and had no idea when to use it (now would be the time)...

FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.

So you're just a scammer, preying on the dumb just like other scammers, thanks for clearing that up.

I never said they are transferred on a kill by kill basis. Learn to read.

Either way, it still stands that you are doing nothing to the offending party by putting a bounty on them. Bounties don't motivate anyone to kill others.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-05-23 00:00:08 UTC
Derek Quaid wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Even if they were to get killed the isk comes from you and is transferred to the one who kills them, you are spending more isk, not making any and they are losing none.

FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.

The ISK does not come from me, you blithering fool. People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation. When their targets leave the game, the bounty pools are refunded pro rata, which means I get the money back. Alts are the most likely toons to be biomassed or otherwise disposed, meaning they're the most likely to turn a profit for me.

Contrary to your belief, bounty payouts are not transferred on a kill-by-kill basis from one player to another. Bounties placed go into a pool, and any bounties earned are paid from that pool. In the words of a moron who stumbled upon a nugget of wisdom and had no idea when to use it (now would be the time)...

FFS, learn the mechanics of the game.


Blithering fool??

Wow.. That wasn't warranted at all.

Bounties are a useless mechanic, nobody bounty hunts. Please bounty me for several trillion isk. Nobody will ever care.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Yourmoney Mywallet
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-05-23 04:21:12 UTC
Derek Quaid wrote:
People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation.

That's actually a good service. I'd like to make use of it if you could?

I'd like to place a bounty on a dude I met on the forums, an out and out scammer. It would just be the minimum amount (100k I think?) because his scam is so bad he really isn't worth any attention above and beyond the bare minimum. It's basically a loan type scam where he takes people's money in exchange for promises he can't keep. Character name "Derek Quaid."

If you front me the money I'll give you 3x to play with (check API). Thanks.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#14 - 2015-05-23 05:40:47 UTC
Removed a redundant post.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#15 - 2015-05-23 07:05:13 UTC
Derek Quaid wrote:
Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:
Sooooo... how much?

A previous client inquired about placing a bounty on a margin scammer and asked if I knew of any way of identifying the guilty party. I asked around and found the consensus to be that this is indeed an anonymous crime.

I would like to place such bounties on such scoundrels, so I am somewhat saddened by CCP allowing a completely anonymous scam in the sandbox.


I don't know much about margin scamming, but shouldn't you be able to identify the person you bought the overpriced item from even if the resale was anonymus?
Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#16 - 2015-05-23 07:51:49 UTC
I love me some loyd.

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.

flakeys
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-05-23 08:14:44 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
Removed a redundant post.



I think something went wrong , OP's post is still up ....



We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

flakeys
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-05-23 08:20:38 UTC
Derek Quaid wrote:
Doesn't EVE have consequences, even if they must be meted out by the players themselves?

.


and then

Derek Quaid wrote:

The ISK does not come from me, you blithering fool. People send me ISK to place bounties anonymously in order to avoid retaliation. .



So , you are complaining there are no consequences and at the same time you provide a service to dodge consequences.


We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#19 - 2015-05-23 08:36:28 UTC
I tend to agree with OP. I would like to see more market-induced PvP. Adding the name and corp to a market column would be a good start. Sure, it is mostly alts but those alts are often in corps which can be targeted.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
Dreamweb Industries
Novus Ordo.
#20 - 2015-05-23 08:48:39 UTC
Good luck taking revenge on someone who never leaves Jita 4-4.

Agent of the New Order

Live by the Code - die by the Code.

The Voice of Highsec

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