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[Carnyx] Sentry Drone Adjustments

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Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#301 - 2015-05-22 13:53:07 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Can we just get rid of CRUISERS getting bonuses to BATTLESHIP weapons?


this Fozzie, this is your fix.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#302 - 2015-05-22 14:11:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
perhaps the CSM could discuss reducing the amount of slots droneboats have beyond the -1 some of them have (guristas miraculously avoided this somehow) perhaps also encourage nerfing guristas too, the dps and amount of slots and tank is massively OP, i also think the 2 uber drones is just stupid and makes it harder too kill there drones especially when they have so many backups, and ofc makes using faction drones much cheaper for them than any other ship.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#303 - 2015-05-22 14:11:38 UTC
I've gotta say I agree with a lot of the comments here. You keep nerfing sentries, but they aren't the problem, it's the hulls with bonus that make them OP. It would be like nerfing Stasis Web's because of Vindi's. You're making it so the ONLY way Sentries are viable, is on these platforms that are already, at least debatably, OP.


Ishtars are the problem. It's not Sentries. It's the fact that not only can a cruiser platform use a full flight of BS grade weapons, but it can do so while remaining kity and hard to catch. What the solution is I do not know, but I do know that nerfing Sentries only hurts all the other boats that don't have these bonuses.
Aplysia Vejun
Children of Agasul
#304 - 2015-05-22 14:19:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Aplysia Vejun
The slowest HAC is kity and hard to catch??
Capt Malcolm Reynoldz
the 57th Overlanders Brigade
#305 - 2015-05-22 14:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Malcolm Reynoldz
First things first - thank you Fozzie and team for continuing to work so hard to make EVE better for everyone. I truly believe your efforts are made with the best intentions and that your team seeks to only improve and not hurt the player experience.

Now - having said that, my thought on this subject is that drones NEED to be able to do better damage than other weapon systems simply because drones are vulnerable the minute they are launched and can be independently targeted and removed from the battlefield. Higher damage output for a shorter / limited engagement window. Risk vs Reward - just as it was intended to be in New Eden.

Most drone boat captains do put a secondary weapon system on their ship to help mitigate drone loss during battle, but those guns/launchers are supplemental damage. In most cases once you have killed my drones off the field you have cut my damage profile by over half and in some cases - all together. As drone boat captains we make the conscious decision to accept that we will lose our drones and will incur the cost needed to replace them.

In exchange for nerfing our primary DPS would you be willing to accept changes that allowed us to shoot your primary DPS off your ship?


(Overheat damage that you have to repair isn't a fair argument until you give me the ability to overheat my Drones....so don't go there.)

I doubt many would vote "yes" to that, so I have a hard time accepting changes that weaken our ability to fight. However, as Fozzie stated these are not intended to be the final changes to drones. I hope that if it is determined that these changes are detrimental to our ability to fight that corrections will be made.

The key word in all of the changes being made is "BALANCE". T3 Cruisers and T3 Destroyers all got some work done so I'll accept the changes and do my best to adjust like everyone else with the hopes that it is truly a "balancing" of the weapon systems and not the crowning of a new King. Not that drones are "king" by any stretch of the imagination.

Just wanted to put my two cents worth out there.

- Mal
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#306 - 2015-05-22 14:27:47 UTC
Capt Malcolm Reynoldz wrote:
First things first - thank you Fozzie and team for continuing to work so hard to make EVE better for everyone. I truly believe your efforts are made with the best intentions and that your team seeks to only improve and not hurt the player experience.

Now - having said that, my thought on this subject is that drones NEED to be able to do better damage than other weapon systems simply because drones are vulnerable the minute they are launched and can be independently targeted and removed from the battlefield. Higher damage output for a shorter / limited engagement window. Risk vs Reward - just as it was intended to be in New Eden.

Most drone boat captains do put a secondary weapon system (with no hull bonus to that weapon in most cases) on their ship to help mitigate drone loss during battle, but those guns/launchers are supplemental damage. In most cases once you have killed my drones off the field you have cut my damage profile by over half and in some cases - all together. As drone boat captains we make the conscious decision to accept that we will lose our drones and will incur the cost needed to replace them.

In exchange for nerfing our primary DPS would you be willing to accept changes that allowed us to shoot your primary DPS off your ship?


(Overheat damage that you have to repair isn't a fair argument until you give me the ability to overheat my Drones....so don't go there.)

I doubt many would vote "yes" to that, so I have a hard time accepting changes that weaken our ability to fight. However, as Fozzie stated these are not intended to be the final changes to drones. I hope that if it is determined that these changes are detrimental to our ability to fight that corrections will be made.

The key word in all of the changes being made is "BALANCE". T3 Cruisers and T3 Destroyers all got some work done so I'll accept the changes and do my best to adjust like everyone else with the hopes that it is truly a "balancing" of the weapon systems and not the crowning of a new King. Not that drones are "king" by any stretch of the imagination.

Just wanted to put my two cents worth out there.

- Mal


TLDR : Don't nerf me bro!!
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#307 - 2015-05-22 14:35:10 UTC
my eft says currently with 3 ddas, an omni mid and an omni low:
gardes 585 dps, 47+27 km, 0.049 rad/sec
curators 551 dps, 82+18 km, 0.038 rad/sec

if these numbers are correct, I really don't get why gardes would be getting significant nerfing relative to other sentries. they look fairly useless to me. I would've expected a much larger gap in the damage between sentry types. I'm not a nullbabby and I don't really do F1 blobbing, so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong or have messed up EFT or something.

I'm also still hoping ishtars can become usable in proper brawly fun setups, rather than just getting nerfed into nothing because shield kiting blob setups happens to be broken. seems unlikely though considering it's really slow and combat drones are still a joke unless you pay your 100m usable heavy drones tax. where's my 6th lowslot and rep amount bonus?
James Spacecrawler
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#308 - 2015-05-22 14:37:00 UTC
So exploring the thought that Ishtars should lose their ability to field Sentries, should they receive massive railgun bonuses instead to be able to compete with the other long range HACs? Should the Deimos then become the drone boat instead?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#309 - 2015-05-22 14:39:08 UTC
James Spacecrawler wrote:
So exploring the thought that Ishtars should lose their ability to field Sentries, should they receive massive railgun bonuses instead to be able to compete with the other long range HACs? Should the Deimos then become the drone boat instead?


Technically they could get 2 short range HAC since caldari pretty much have 2 long range ones...
Lister Vindaloo
5 Tons of Flax
#310 - 2015-05-22 14:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lister Vindaloo
This change is really going to hurt the Myrm, sentry Myrms are great fun to fly and aren't OP but the tracking nerf is pretty harsh especially on gardes, they're pretty much I selects now, curators and bouncers will rule the roost, while we all try and figure out exactly what situation wardens are useful for?

Maybe raising the bandwidth for sentries to 30 and buffing bandwidth on hulls you want to launch a full flight along with much milder nerf to sentries themselves would be a less drastic solution

But please leave the Myrm with 4 :)
Vivien Meally
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#311 - 2015-05-22 14:42:38 UTC
Sometime i think that CCP Fozzie wants to sabotage the game and CCP.


22,278 players online ...
James Spacecrawler
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#312 - 2015-05-22 14:49:11 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
James Spacecrawler wrote:
So exploring the thought that Ishtars should lose their ability to field Sentries, should they receive massive railgun bonuses instead to be able to compete with the other long range HACs? Should the Deimos then become the drone boat instead?


Technically they could get 2 short range HAC since caldari pretty much have 2 long range ones...


Yeah, I just read the bonuses for the EagleBig smile. That's true then, making the Ishtar a brawling drone boat would still give it a unique feel among the other HACs.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#313 - 2015-05-22 15:15:45 UTC
MechaJeb Kerman wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:

What if this was also done on all drone types...

Sentry Salvage drone.
Sentry Mining drone
Sentry Web drone
etc



Oh yes, Sentry ECM would be glorious. You get a permajam! And you get a permajam! EVERYBODY GETS A PERMAJAM!



Would give you reasons to fit Back up "racial" arrays to your ship. so you can't get ECMed as often...

Or just limit their range.
Player ECM is what 30-70km

A sentry ECM drone could have stats along the line of 20-50km

**A drone, ether mobile or fixed should not get the same benefits to EWAR as player controlled EWAR.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
stoicfaux
#314 - 2015-05-22 15:24:50 UTC
1. Nerf sentry drones.
2. Add BC with Drone links.
3. ??? Buff Ishtar, because Ishtar.
4. Profit!


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#315 - 2015-05-22 15:25:50 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:
Ok. Firstly: look at my corp history, I left the Swarm last week. Goon PVE Ishtars run heavy drones, Wasps to be specific, as they eat frigate rats for breakfast, which Wardens can't do, unless they are 70km away from the rat who has 0 transversal.

I couldn't care less if you were a random gewn forum alt, or a random gullible person.
Just don't crap on my ears, we all know the Ishtar is not close to the spread propagewnda wants us to believe.

Miner Hottie wrote:
There are carriers and vindis and Rattlesnakes ratting in Deklein, but they are idiots. You get nearly as good a performance from a T2 Wasp equipped ishtar as a carrier, for far less risk.

Now I really wonder who's an idiot here. You really suck at ratting if your rattle/carrier is not nearly twice as efficient as the Ishtar, whatever drones it's using. But then again, you're a gewn, you just lie. And considering that in post-Phoebe world just about the only risk for a carrier is wormholes, which are controllable, you lied again.

Miner Hottie wrote:
Finally, you need to drop the mental conditioning which says goons always lie. They only usually lie and you won't find much lying from them in these threads. Freaking need chribba to come in and mine all this tinfoil. Finally, seeing the Ishtar nerfed to the pack with the other HAC's would make me very happy. Drone doctrines aren't that great and encourage a pretty limited skill amongst all the players.

You lied like every gewn so far. You need to drop the mental condition which makes you lie first.
"In these threads" there is only one truth - all but gewns are getting a nerfbat... again. Whoever says otherwise - lies. Just like you.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Xenuria
#316 - 2015-05-22 15:43:15 UTC
CCP has said during FanFest and other mediums that they want to bring drones in like with other "Primary Damage Types" meaning Blasters, Lazers, Rails, Etc. This means that a player in a ship designed to benefit drones should be able to viably use drones as a primary and ONLY source of damage output. This is no longer possible, it hasn't been possible for over a year now. In effort to prune "Damage/Power Creep" CCP has started lopping off branches of game-play.

If CCP went on record on said something like "Yeah, we no longer see drone dps as a primary damage type in our development narrative" Than there would be no controversy. No reason for anybody to complain.

The problem is CCP has never said that and the fitting of drone boats also still reflects the idea of drones as a primary NOT a secondary Damage source. For those that don't understand what could happen if Power Creep isn't checked in an MMO, look at World of Warcraft. EvE Online is quickly becoming a cautionary tale of when Power Creep mitigation goes to far, in the likes of Guild Wars 2 and other power tapered development mentalities.

CSM 12 Candidate
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#317 - 2015-05-22 15:46:45 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tyr Dolorem wrote:
Why are you nerfing the drones not the hulls that are the problem?

Because both the drones and the hulls are problems, and the solutions will involve ongoing changes to both.

Now, if only BBcode worked directly in bio's, this would be in mine so so fast.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
MasterGlorfy
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#318 - 2015-05-22 15:49:35 UTC
Aplysia Vejun wrote:
The slowest HAC is kity and hard to catch??


I believe the point the poster was making was that they kite well and are hard to catch in relation to other ships that wield battleship sized weaponry.

Filthy Peasants are recruiting!
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#319 - 2015-05-22 15:51:07 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Rootufi Aldent wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Can we just get rid of CRUISERS getting bonuses to BATTLESHIP weapons?


no, because tornado.


Battlecruisers and cruisers are not the same thing.


Also, Attack battlecruisers make major tradeoffs to fit those large guns, such as being lightly tanked for cruisers.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#320 - 2015-05-22 15:53:11 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
CCP has said during FanFest and other mediums that they want to bring drones in like with other "Primary Damage Types" meaning Blasters, Lazers, Rails, Etc. This means that a player in a ship designed to benefit drones should be able to viably use drones as a primary and ONLY source of damage output. This is no longer possible, it hasn't been possible for over a year now. In effort to prune "Damage/Power Creep" CCP has started lopping off branches of game-play.

If CCP went on record on said something like "Yeah, we no longer see drone dps as a primary damage type in our development narrative" Than there would be no controversy. No reason for anybody to complain.

The problem is CCP has never said that and the fitting of drone boats also still reflects the idea of drones as a primary NOT a secondary Damage source. For those that don't understand what could happen if Power Creep isn't checked in an MMO, look at World of Warcraft. EvE Online is quickly becoming a cautionary tale of when Power Creep mitigation goes to far, in the likes of Guild Wars 2 and other power tapered development mentalities.


So, if this is the case, bring the ishtar and other drone platform's fitting space into accord with the fittingless nature of their PRIMARY damage source, and thus make them actually make tradeoffs other than downsizing their secondary weapons to fit 100mn MWDs to cruisers.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp